ABS Pump relay problem

[cyberdan3]

Hey everyone, i have a question i am hoping you will be able to answer. I recently had some gasket work done. They replaced all my gaskets but the head gasket and a few different ones. but anyway, while they did it, the had to pull the engine, so I'm wondering would pulling the engine mess with the ABS pump to cause an ABS pump relay to come up when we tap into it. Also, if any of you have done this work, can you tell me about how much it costed?? i just spent over $2,000 to fix my oil leak, and I don't want to pay much more. i have a 1994 Seville. Also, only when I accelerate does the light go on after i start the car. It says traction disabled.

[romabimmer]

The traction control requires that it be able to read the throttle position sensor on the throttle body on the engine.

If this wasn't hooked up or if the connector was damaged your light will come on. I bet the ABS/Traction Control module is fine. It's just not reading all the sensors it needs to. Under those circumstances the light will come on and the traction control will turn off.

Have your tech check the throttle position sensor and the connector and they should have an ABS code reader that will clearly show the code for that sensor, which means that the system can't read it.

FYI: Technically it's not the ABS but the traction control. Your ABS is probably still working fine. That's why the light goes off when you accelerate, the Traction control is trying to do it's thing but can't read the engine.

[cyberdan3]

Thanks for the info, but what i meant is when I shut my car off, and turn it back on, the computer moniters the system ok. I back out of my driveway, go into drive and start to accelerate. The light goes on and stays on. It doesn't shut off until the car is turned off. I know for sure my traction is disabled. I haven't tried to see if the ABS works or not, because we haven't had any snow here in Minnesota yet. If the problem is only with the traction, maybe I will just leave it if it is too much. Thanks a lot for the help. I just didn't want to have the mechanic charge me to look at it, because I don't have any money(or little of it.) How much work do you think it would cost to check and replace the connectors if that is the problem. You are a great asset to Automotive forums, keep up the great advice.

P.S. While I was in the car wash the other day, I drove into it, and when I got to the small ramp that falls down to tell you you're positioned right, my car fell and made a pop sound. I guess I might have drove a little on the rail. I checked afterwards to see if I had a flat tire. and i didn't so, do you think that would make a difference??
Thanks

[romabimmer]

It should cost very little to read the codes from the ABS ECU (which is also the traction control ECU) to see if one of the sensors is bad. At that point I guess it depends what's wrong on how much it will cost you, but at least you'll know. Go to any Caddy dealer and they should be able to read the codes in the parking lot, it's just a handheld reader that connects to the ABS ECU or the same diagnostic connector under the dash.

However, if the people that did your engine work forgot to connect the throttle position sensor of if they bent a pin in that connector it's their fault and they should fix it for free.

The reason the light comes on when it does is that is the first time it senses that there is a problem because that is the first time it needs to use the sensor. This makes me think that the connector is damaged only, probably a bent pin inside the connector. Because the self-check that the system runs is seeing the sensor, but when it needs to actually read data it can't. Once it goes on it will not go off until you turn off the car and then turn it back on. The system check only checks to make sure everything is there, not if it's working as required. That's why sometimes ABS lights only come on while your braking.


As far as the bump in the car wash. It is possible you busted a wheel speed sensor. If this did happen then the ABS light would be on all the time and you would not have ABS. But I doubt you have a problem there, the sensors are located in the hub and usually a hit that damages the sensor will at least damage the wheel too.

[cyberdan3]

Well, we have icy roads outside, so when i was driving my friend home, i sped up and slammed the brakes. the wheels locked up and I slid to a stop. My ABS or Traction doesn't work. Do you still think it is the connector?? I hope i can find out so I can ask the mechanic what to try if he says something different.

[romabimmer]

Hmmm! No ABS or traction control. ABS should not shut off just because of the throttle position sensor. Doesn't mean it doesn't, just shouldn't.

I was betting on the connector since you've had engine work done. I've seen this on more than one occasion when people pull their engines out or do other serious repairs.

And it still maybe the issue, since you have a Delphi system and I'm not completely familiar with them. But, normally the driver's aids shut down in stages.

At this point the number of possiblities is greater, could be a the wheel speed sensors, the ABS pump, the ECU, the valve block or the throttle position sensor.

You will need to pull the failure codes from the ECU to be sure. Sorry, wish I could be more specific but there are too many components in an ABS system that can cause a failure and if just 1 fails then the whole system shuts down. So, it becomes impossible to figure out what's wrong by just driving around.

Best guess (and only a guess) no ABS or T-C then I would say the wheel speed sensor or the tone wheel (both are located in the same place next to each other at the hub).

I would have the codes pulled first before doing any work, as any good mechanic should do. Caddy dealer service shops tend to be pretty customer friendly, I'm sure they'll pull the codes and then let you decide if you want to have it fixed.

[cyberdan3]

Thanks , i will go to the cadillac dealer by my school sometime in the next week. Hopefully it isn't too expensive, or it is the cheapest of the possible problems. Do you think it may have been now from the car wash bump??. You have been a great help. By the way, are you a master mechanic or something, and where abouts do you live?? I would love to have you as my mechanic!!

[romabimmer]

Nope, used to be a brake engineer at Ford. I live in New Jersey.

[cyberdan3]

I just talked to my mechanic, after leaving my car at his shop for the night. He told me that he ran a series of tests, and came to the ABS pump module. He said the part with traction control costs $1,500!! I am not going to pay that kind of money. I have a feeling that it is the wheel sensor, because if that happened from the car wash, maybe the wheel sensor is damaged. All he did was check amperage and flow and came up with the highest price part. I hope he is being honest, because when I had my engine gaskets done, he did my sparkplugs and wires too. We told him he shouldn't have done them because I didn't have enough money, but he said they needed to be done, and that you had to take the whole intake off of the block to get to them. I asked the cadillac dealer, and he verified with me that it can be done in aboout 20 minutes!! I hate when people lie. Also, now I am getting less miles per gallon than I was with my old spark plugs. Do my new ones have to be broken in or something??

[cyberdan3]

Well i went out today to get my check and cash it from work. Everytime I start the car, and accelerate the light goes on, but when I came home, and my brother needed a ride to bsketball. The light nevr went on the whole ride there and back. I even gave it a lot of gas, the tires started to spin, and it said traction active. This confused, me. romabimmer, do you think it is still the actual pump, or maybe something is loose. I haven't tried it out again to see if it goes on or not, but I will post when I get home from work tonight. Hopefully it stays off and I don't have to pay the $1,500.

[cyberdan3]

well as you can all see, it is not late june and my light has not gone on for a couple months. Just letting you know. I am very happy I dont need to fix it. I am buying Bridgestone Turanza LS tires. What do you guys think of them?

[chutchin]

Hey RomaBimmer,
I see your problem. I would try QuikMechanic at:
http://www.ineed1.com/quikmechanic.html

I used them before, and they helped alot. It's alot cheaper than going to the shop and they don't fix it, but charge me $68 or more per hour. It's just $1 anyway, so you can't go wrong.

Chutch

[David Kennedy]

a few days ago on my 1995 Deville Concours I suddenly got an ABS light, the traction disabled warning, and the car began to be very sluggish when starting from a stop. It didn't take long to find that even when manually attempting to shift into 1st gear it refused to do do. I assumed I had a hard fail and was about to run off to the mechanic when the warning lights went out and everything worked well, even the transmission. That lasted several hours around town and then it failed again. Does anyone have any ideas what could intermittently cause all of this??

In the course of trying to troubleshoot this problem I looked at my OBD codes. I am also wondering why my codes don't match the OBD-I or OBD-II codes that I have found on the internet? For example I have a T042 code but T041 is as close as I can find.

[procaddytech]

the abs and traction control use the same module. it does an initial test with key on the another test about 10 to 15mph. when the engine was removed they probably left the ground wire loose from the abs pump braket. it is in the lower left front corner of the car, under the air cleaner assy or just in front of the left front wheel on the frame. look for a black wire with a rig terminal to be loose and it mat have a single connector approx. 8 inches from the terminal. start there. also 2000 dollars was actually a very good price to fix oil leaks considering they did it properly. hope i helped and was not too late. just joined forum.