HELP NEEDED IN A HURRY! Metro 3 cyl DIED this morning, won't restart

[ammcf1]

This morning I was driving along at about 45 MPH and the car suddenly lost power. It just had NO get-up-and-go - and when I stepped on the gas it would get EVEN SLOWER. I pulled over and by the time I got it into park (automatic) it was dead, and won't restart. Doesn't sound right when I'm trying to crank it over - hard to describe. But it clearly won't start.

My suspicion is something electrical? I'm looking for a Geo-Genius to help me out on this...

1994 1.0 liter 3 - cyl - automatic.

Thanks

[flashlight]

It sounds like your battery may have gone dead, or the cables that carry the power have gotten knocked loose. You might also want to contact Doctorbill, GM Line Rat, or 91Caprice as they all are very good at helping you out with your problem if you can give them a detailed description of what happened.

[ammcf1]

Thanks flash - but the battery is less than 2 weeks old - and the alternator is fine too (or was last week). It wasn't a gradual reduction in power, it was instant. I'll contact some of the others to see what they might think...

[Woodie83]

Timing belt. Take off the distributor cap and have someone crank it, I'll bet the rotor isn't turning. It sounds funny because there's no compression.

[DOCTORBILL]

Sounds almost exactly how mine "Died" (all of a sudden!)....at 157,000 miles.

I had burned thru an exhaust valve and I believe my MAP Sensor went T.U. also.

If the timing belt is broken - it won't run at all!

In any case, you haven't told us how many miles on your car - I'd suspect over
150,000 on a '94.

We need as much information as you can tell us - everything!

I hate to sound "negative" - people like to hear only good things.....

Mine pooped out and someone here talked me into the one thing that might clear
up what is going on with your engine - a compression test.

Having no idea what your automotive experience is...I'd just say either do a compression test yourself or have it done.

If your valves are shot, you have to have the Head Rebuilt for about $250 or so. No alternative.

After that, you may have an almost 'new engine'....

I am loath to give you the Thread link to my rebuilding experience as it seems
self-aggrandizing, but I - a simple, non-mechanic, unwashed individual caveman, rebuilt
my 3 cylinder engine and now have a 49 mpg hot shot, '93 Geo Metro (I call it The Phoenix) going
like Gang Busters....for about $450 spread over a month or so of slow but
methodical work in my driveway using bear claws and stone tools.

BTW - I replaced my rings and piston rod bearings also...along with my Fuel Pump.
But you may only need the Head rebuilt - find a Head Shop in your phone book
and give them a call for prices - compare shops and prices while you are at it!

If, indeed, you burned out an exhaust valve (EV) -probably No. 1 cylinder, you
might as well resign yourself to either fixing the Head or junking the car.

Corvett69 would advise buying a used Japanese Engine (he can advise you on
that regard) and replacing yours for maybe $350 or so....he can chime in on that!

Send him a private message (PM) - he is a very nice person who repairs lots of Metros.

Either way - if an EV is burned thru, you must repair it.

I hemmed and hawed, argued and whimpered, then finally did the Compression Test, and then I knew for sure.....

Go buy a compression tester, rent one - whatever - and do it!

Here are some of my wordy, blah blah links - maybe they will help you - if you
have a lot of patience....

If you have the patience to read thru my thread(s) on fixing my '93 Geo Metro
all with pictures taken as I did it, have a look at :

First Page of ..................."That's the end of my '93 Metro....."
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=611713

First Page of..................."NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS"
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t613410.html

First Page of ..............."The Flight of the PHOENIX !"
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=645309

First Page of ..............”A way to Clean the Carbon out of the IM Passageways !”
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t622536.html

There are a lot of other nefarious threads that I interspersed in this Forum concerning
this and that....do a search of DoctorBill and they'll show up. Gas Tank replacement,
Front Wheel Bearing replacement, messing with the Throttle Body, the Injector, the Distributor,
door replacement after someone backed into me, etc etc.

Hope my experiences and picture taking while doing the repairs helps someone.


DoctorBill

[91Caprice9c1]

Originally Posted by ammcf1

This morning I was driving along at about 45 MPH and the car suddenly lost power. It just had NO get-up-and-go - and when I stepped on the gas it would get EVEN SLOWER. I pulled over and by the time I got it into park (automatic) it was dead, and won't restart. Doesn't sound right when I'm trying to crank it over - hard to describe. But it clearly won't start.

My suspicion is something electrical? I'm looking for a Geo-Genius to help me out on this...

1994 1.0 liter 3 - cyl - automatic.

Thanks

Flashlight - you are a gentlemen.

ammcf1 - I am highly inclined to agree with woodie. This has happened to numerous cars in my fleet. For sudden death on a metro the timing belt is absolutely the first thing to check. ESPECIALLY since you mentioned the car cranking oddly - it's damn near a textbook example. Do as woodie said, see if the dist. rotor is turning (remove the dist. cap).

DoctorBill has a plethora of documented experience working on his own metro on this forum - excellent data. IF the dist. rotor is turning with the engine cranking I'd look next to see if you're getting spark at the plug and fuel at the injector, and after those are confirmed perform a compression check as the Doctor ordered. A compression test is a wonderful thing to do and tells you a lot about how the innards are doing.

Post back.

-MechanicMatt

[GM Line Rat]

Originally Posted by ammcf1

Thanks flash - but the battery is less than 2 weeks old - and the alternator is fine too (or was last week). It wasn't a gradual reduction in power, it was instant. I'll contact some of the others to see what they might think...

The battery would be dead if the alternator dies 1st, then the car ran off the battery until it drained it. It's was a "rare" situation but, my 94 Metro died instantly 1 night coming home from work. After I pulled the car over and lifted the hood......The Coil wire at the firewall had simply worked itself loose over time from vibration and fell off! Put it back on the coil and she started right back up! Next day, I Spread out the terminal of the coil slightly larger, then I Put a thin layer of RTV gasket sealer on the boot of the coil wire after I stuck it back on....No problems since..... Hope you can be so lucky? Other wise, I'd say to do the tests Woody suggested 1st (Dist cap and look for rotor operation). These are "Non-interference" engines meaning, you bust a timing belt and dont have to worry about a piston hitting a valve.....Just replace the belt and tensioner.....If you do find the belt broken, POST BACK HERE 1ST for the proper replacement procedure.........All kinds of good info here......Look at the stuff Doc posted!

[ammcf1]

Thanks to everyone for all your help! I had run it down to the mechanic because I needed the car ASAP and didn't have time to do anything myself. It turns out it WAS (drum roll).....


The timing belt! So, It appears that Woodie and 91Caprice are the Geo-Geniuses for this round! Thanks again guys!

[DOCTORBILL]

Good for you!

It was a simple, straightforward problem - unlike many that we run into!

I was kinda hopin' that someone would do a Head Fix and maybe replace their
Rings and go thru the process on this Forum....but - what the Heck....

Good luck to you.

You never told us much about the car or engine - how many miles.
mpg?
etc.

DoctorBill

[ammcf1]

It's a 1994, automatic 3-cyl - probably 150K on mileage. I'm getting around 33 MPG right now - hoping to improve that somehow

[DOCTORBILL]

Then depending on how you feel about this Geo Metro (most folks love theirs!),
if you either do it yourself or have it done, a compression test will tell you
the condition of your valves and rings.

I, personally, held back doing mine because I wasn't sure I wanted to know how
bad they were!

If they were bad, it implied I had to decide on further fixing or not...decisions, decisions!

But - the compression test may show one or two of your valves aren't giving you
the efficiency you want.

If the rings are worn, you are not getting the efficiency you are looking for.
Does your oil turn black after a few hundred miles after an oil change?

There could be numerous other reasons for low efficiency, also....but -

A very easy, simple test may tell quite a lot - especially on an older engine
with that many miles on it.

Apparently around 140,000 to 150,000 miles on these engine is when the number one
exhaust valve starts going south.

Compression gauges are inexpensive when purchased at economy type stores like
Harbor Freight or Schucks Automotive. Maybe $30 at most.

Nice to have for any other cars you have or may buy later.

OK - I'll stop "preaching" now.

DoctorBill