That's the end of my '93 Metro.....

[DOCTORBILL]

This is a new thread from my last one "Reassembling the TBI..."

Today I did a compression test on my 3 cyl Metro Hatchback.
158,000 miles on the engine (bought the car used last summer) - who knows
if the original engine or what!



Anyway:

Took out the plugs - saw spark going to all but #3. Engine cold (won't run)

.........W/O Gas pedal down:

#1 - 45-50 psi #2 - 65 psi #3 - 95 psi

.........with Gas pedal to floor:

#1 - 60 psi #2 - 95 psi #3 - 155 psi

So.....I guess that's it! Dead meat. Burned out valve on #1 and #2 going bad.

I will not spend another $400 for a used engine and $500 to install it for a car
worth at most $100 (if that w/o a running engine).

I just recently saw that someone here did his own valves (cost in U$S?) and
rings (pistons still in the engine no less!), but I am 63 and not all that
knowledgable about such things.....Merde!

I guess thats' it! I have about $2,000 into this thing, but I can't justify
another $1,000 just to save on gas.....

Damn.

What does it cost to get the valves fixed? Can one do it one's self? Special tools involved?
Then if the rings are gone....double Merde!

Any suggestions? Buy some used Ford Fiesta? Maybe buy a bicycle....

DoctorBill

[DavidLang]

Doc,

My 91 was in similar fashion when I bought it. I pulled the head and dropped it off at NAPA and they completely refurbished it for about $150. I also did the rings and rod bearings just for peace of mind, but they were in pretty good shape. With this forum and a factory service manual it was a good experience.
BTW I hope you don't mind but I used one of your engine pics in an earlier post to help describe some wires I'm missing. Thanks Dave

[DOCTORBILL]

Your words give me some peace of mind....

$150 you say....How long ago was that? Ohio area. I'm in Spokane, WA.
When I was just a kid, my parents lived in Columbus, Ohio.
My Dad & Mom were from Indianapolis, Indiana

Also - could you describe the experience of pulling the Head off and putting it
back on.

Never did that on anything....

When I did my front wheel bearings on this little fart, it was way more than I
had thought it would be.

This Metro seems in good shape. I have about $250 into the front wheel
bearings, $120 into the rear brakes, new battery, new fuel pump ($190), fixed
up the interior....Snow tires & wheels, new summer tires

I hate to just dump it.

Do the bolts that hold on the head come out easily or did they put that
damned threadlock in those like they do the TBI components?

If I do this, it will be a major project for my old butt to take on - but...if you
don't use it, you lose it.

DoctorBill

[DavidLang]

NAPA rebuilt the head about a year ago. After draining the radiator and removing the distributor, plug wires, timing belt, intake and exhaust, etc., I removed the head using a breaker bar and a 6 point #14 deep socket. The head bolts are really tight and a 12 point socket will probably round them off. (They recommend using new head bolts for reinstallation.) You'll need a torque wrench to follow the torque sequence for reinstallation. If you think you want to proceed I can give you more detail. Dave

[DOCTORBILL]

I think I could do this......(Lord God, am I out of my mind?!)

What gives me nightmares is bolts breaking off inside something.

When I tried to take off the Fuel Pressure Regulator from the Throttle Body,
two of the damned bolts broke off. Luckily I got one from a local Pull-n-Save.

Then, the next worse nightmare is threads stripping in some unreplaceable part.

Breaker bar, huh? Jesus, seems you are lucky the bolt didn't break down inside
the block...

I have learned to use an air-hammer like they use on wheel lug nuts.
The vibration gets tight nuts & bolts moving.

Anyway - yes. As much information as you might be willing to relate to us.

From what I have seen and had said to me, most everyone who visits this
Forum benefits from other folk's experiences. Digital pictures along with the
explanations makes them 1,000x better.

The Chilton Manual is OK, but the pictures are non too good and the damned
explanations are miserable at best "remove the head... assembly is the reverse of removal.." Ha!

I will probably work up enough nerve to have a go at this bugger-all
vehicle. What Have I got to lose - if I bugger it up, then it still will be worth
what is is now - Jack Squat.

I just need to get it done at minimal cost (can hardly pay my bills now!) and
before the weather goes to Hell here in NorthEastern Washington State.

AND - before gasoline gets so high that I can't afford to go to work
just to pay for the next tank of it. My Jeep costs $55 to fill the tank!

That is esentially once per week. So Gas - (just for MY car) is about $220
per month....Then my wife and son each have vehicles!

So - to reiterate my answer - YES - with pictures if you can!

DoctorBill

PS - Are new head bolts $5 each? The gaskets cost a lot, also....no?

[nonewcars]

I pulled the head on my 92 geo metro about a year ago. Looks just like yours by the way. Pulling the exhaust, timing belt, and distributor are fairly simple. The intake can be a chore however trying to get to all the bolts. It can be done. Took me about 3 hours to get the head off. I used a breaker bar as well and removed the head bolts in the reverse order of the tightening sequence. Had a machine shop resurface the head and put all new valves in. Cost me about $250 dollars with gasket set. I definitely think its worth trying. I did not replace the rings which I wish I would have as mine uses about a quart of oil a week. I don't understand how to replace the rings an bearings without pulling the entire motor, but others on the forum say it can be done.

[Crvett69]

if you decide to scrap the car don't call a junkyard, i will buy it from you and drop another motor in

[stamar]

I have a 94 that runs perfectly Im thinking of selling for about $700 for what it matters.

ATM only real problem is broken hood hinge. brake pads are begginning to squeal. clutch is even brand new less than about 2k miles on it. pictures in my cardomain.

[geozukigti]

Hey Bill, don't dump it! The engine head is actually a fairly painless fix. The worst part is taking off the timing belt and the hoses/wires from the head. The headbolts will NOT snap off inside the block. They are extremely hard, and are always oily, so they won't rust. It would take over 150lb-ft of torque to snap those bad boys in half. New headbolts are cheap too. Always replace them when you take the head off.
http://www.teamswift.net/3tech/

Talk to him about getting your head rebuilt. He can toss in some stainless valves(no more burnt valves) and do a few other fun things with it to make it feel like a much better metro, for about the price of having it rebuilt at a shop. It'll be well worth it, and your car will feel like a completely different animal . He even makes a fuel economy head for it.

I've personally done a headgasket on a 1.0 in about 3 hours. You're a smart guy, shouldn't take ya but a good saturday afternoon to finish it up.

[DOCTORBILL]

I called two places here in Spokane this morning. NAPA's shop will do it for less
than $200 with new valves included. A Head Service Shop also quoted
the same price....

So I made the decision and am already out in my driveway removing stuff.
Once I decide on something, I move on it quickly. Obsessive I guess!

So - I am at the point of having the timing belt cover and tensioner and belt
itself off.

Do I actually need to remove the intake manifold out of the engine compartment?

Do I need to remove the Timing Belt Upper pulley (the big toothed one)?

Can I take the head in with the valve cover still on? I'd rather not screw
around with it.

The "3-Tech performance" site is too expensive for my budget!
Stainless valves are $50 for the 3-cylinder engine! Can I get those here in
Spokane for the locals to use?

What do you advise for the Locals to replace....besides the exhaust valves?

"Dear Lord, PLEASE don't let me F**k this up!" John Glenn's prayer before liftoff....

I will be out in the hot sun cussing and swearing (it helps me blow off steam!)
as I remove the head...

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

you have to take the valve cover off to get to the head bolts under it. you can leave intake on and pull it once you get head off engine. big gear can stay on head

[DOCTORBILL]

OK. I will leave the intake manifold alone until the head is off....
Only a zillion tubes and wires connected to it....

I am being more intelligent about this process now.... I am placing all the
bolts, nuts, screws, etc from each part into zip-lock sandwich bags and
labelling each one. No more cans of screws, nuts and bolts laying here and
there and me confused as to which goes where!
Never again,"Where the Hell are all those screws!" Panic, anger, swearing, looking everywhere....

I am wondering about the Distributor now. The Chilton Manual is useless as
regards removing it. "Remove the hold down bolt."
WTF is that? No photo or drawing.....What pekker heads!

Here is a photo. The sun is beating down on the car now, so I am taking a
break to ask these questions. See photo below.



Which bolts do I take out to remove the Distributor? Set #1 (2)
or set #3 (2)....?

Do I need to worry about marking it's rotor position since I am having the Head
worked on...?

The next one you answered - but let's check....



Do I need to remove this Pulley?

What is best way to drain the Coolant? Any taps at the bottom?

DoctorBill

PS - If I can get 150,000 miles on regular valves, I would be an old, old man at my rate of driving
before I would rack up another 150,000 miles. And the car would be worn out by then.....
Stainless Steel valves should have been put in when the car was made !!!!

[idmetro]

Those ziplock bags and a sharpee will save your !@# not to mention your sanity.. Murphys law always intervenes when you think you will complete the project this afternoon or today and what actually happens is you get back next week or month. I've also taken to writing on masking tape and sticking it to whatever wire/connector i remove so i will have some idea of where it should go later. Once complete and running well I can always tear off the tape.
The distributor should come out by removing the #2 set of screws. What I have done in the past is set everything to TDC (Top Dead Center) then I note where the rotor should be (your picture will work just fine) and begin the disassembly. The distributor on Metros has a flat blade at the bottom so you only can get it into position two ways: 1-correctly or 2-totally bassackwards (which is of course the way it will go if you don't take note of where the rotor is pointing at TDC).
Coolant wise I just pull the bottom radiator hose and drain it into a bucket. Congrats on your tenacity! While I haven't used one the rebuilt heads I see on ebay look attractively priced.
I don't recall if the timing belt pully has to come off to remove the head. I think it might to allow access to the backer plate that the timing cover bolts to. To remove it you could stick a screwdriver through it to lock it into position or wrap an old timing belt around it like a strap wrench to strop it from turning.

[Crvett69]

there are 2 of the #2 bolts with the torx heads on them that you have to remove. the distributor is keyed so it will only go in one way but it can also stay on the head till you remove it from car, the cam gear does not have to come off. you can also leave the exhaust manifold on the head if you want and take it off afterwards but its easy to pull when its on the car. i know you don't want to hear this but if you redo the head you should also replace rings at the same time or it will probably smoke and use oil

[DOCTORBILL]

Great! I was going to remove the #1 set of bolts! I actually did, but nothing
would move, so I put them back on.... Whew!

I will leave the Distributor on until the head is off.

If I remove the nuts holding the Intake manifold, will it just pop off or need
some force to get it off?

Can I just set the Intake Manifold back on whatever is below it?

I will remove the Exhaust Manifold while the Head it is in the car.
Same questions as above - does it separate easily or need force?

OK - so you think I should do the rings also. The vehicle did not use much
oil before this.... Why would it do so when I'm done with the Head?

If I wait, what difference does it make? If I get at the rings by dropping
the pan and taking the pistons out from below, why not wait until I
really need rings?

I am more paranoid than masochistic....

What did you think of my comment on Stainless Steel Valves?
I am tempted since I almost always conduct massive overkill on all projects !
(Lucky I don't run the war in Iraq...).

DoctorBill