Paint question

[924_CarreraGTS]

I am about to airbrush my Firebird model with Tamiya acrylics. Can these be thinned with water, or do you have to use the X20-A thinner they reccommend? I know the paint is water-based, and I normally thin acrylics with water, but I don't want to screw up another paint job.

Thanks,

Alex

[Enzoenvy1]

Originally Posted by 924_CarreraGTS

I am about to airbrush my Firebird model with Tamiya acrylics. Can these be thinned with water, or do you have to use the X20-A thinner they reccommend? I know the paint is water-based, and I normally thin acrylics with water, but I don't want to screw up another paint job.

Thanks,

Alex

X2 I just got an airbrush and am about to start playing. I would think Tamiya thinner but we shall see.

[stevenoble]

I always find they spray better when thinned with the proper thinner.When I've sprayed them with water as the thinner the paint tends to bead up on the surface of the model and not stick properly.Water is fine for cleaning brushes out when you have used them with the acrylics though.On a personal note I wouldn't use the Tamiya acrylics for painting a body.I know some people do use them and get fabulous results as well,but they never work for me and I always end up with a mess instead of a nice paint job.I much prefer the TS aerosols range instead or more recently the Zero line of basecoat colours are my paint of choice.But each to their own,some people I know swear by the Tamiya acrylics.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

I much prefer the TS aerosols range instead or more recently the Zero line of basecoat colours are my paint of choice.But each to their own,some people I know swear by the Tamiya acrylics.

The TS cans look like good paints, but I have an airbrush for a reason--so I don't need to spray paint. Why can't they offer this stuff in a jar?? I will try the acrylics and see; I've developed a painting method that seems fairly fool-proof (no runs or adhesion issues), so I'm hoping it will work. Testors enamels have screwed me up, so acrylics are really my only option.

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by 924_CarreraGTS

The TS cans look like good paints, but I have an airbrush for a reason--so I don't need to spray paint. Why can't they offer this stuff in a jar??

You can still use the TS aerosols through your airbrush.Just use a drinking straw and spray the paint from the aerosol down the straw and into a jar.Allow the gas to escape and let the paint settle to room temperature and you're ready to go.Simply put the paint into your airbrush and spray as normal.They really do lay on nice with the airbrush as well.Give it a try I think you'll be impressed.

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

You can still use the TS aerosols through your airbrush.Just use a drinking straw and spray the paint from the aerosol down the straw and into a jar.Allow the gas to escape and let the paint settle to room temperature and you're ready to go.Simply put the paint into your airbrush and spray as normal.They really do lay on nice with the airbrush as well.Give it a try I think you'll be impressed.

Not only that, but I've found there's a lot less waste, and you can paint much more, by transfering TS paint to the airbrush. I have a bottle of Tamiya lacquer thinner, add a few drops to the mixture and it's great through my HP CS Eclipse. I'll apply light coats of clear w/the airbrush, building up slowly, and then the last wet coat of clear I'll apply straight from the can. I love TS paints, and now using them through the airbrush makes them even better.

[Enzoenvy1]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

You can still use the TS aerosols through your airbrush.Just use a drinking straw and spray the paint from the aerosol down the straw and into a jar.Allow the gas to escape and let the paint settle to room temperature and you're ready to go.Simply put the paint into your airbrush and spray as normal.They really do lay on nice with the airbrush as well.Give it a try I think you'll be impressed.

Cool, so after the paint is decanted there is not thinning then?

[MPWR]

Tamiya acrylics are an excellent media to learn to airbrush on. I would be hard pressed to think of anything else better (perhaps excepting Gunze, which spray as well). Yes, they definately can be used for painting bodies. They can also be easily and effectively mixed to different shades and colors- I've found them to be very flexible for matching factory colors. But be aware that acrylic will be softer than laquer. It's not a problem or even really a limitation, just something to know.

For thinning, Tamiya acrylic thinner really is the best choice. Water mixed with alcohol will work very well for spraying flat colors, but for glosses the Tamiya propriatery thinner really is worth using. 'Water based' does not necessarily mean that water is the best option for thinning or cleanup- just that you will need to use it with water based substances. Personally, I like to clean up with Windex glass cleaner or the like- it's magnificent for cleaning Tamiya acrylics.

Originally Posted by Enzoenvy1

Cool, so after the paint is decanted there is not thinning then?

I certainly wouldn't count on that. Surely you've seen enough discussion here now about spraying TS, and about airbrushing in general to know that there is no tried and true thinning ratio for any paint, ever. Some people airbrush TS unthinned and get good results, others thin it significantly when airbrushing. (Pesonally, I would never spray it straight- but I like to reduce laquers as much as possible for airbrushing.) Do not expect that it will not need thinning. Your milage will vary.

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by Enzoenvy1

Cool, so after the paint is decanted there is not thinning then?

I think this depends on a number of factors. (air pressure,type of airbrush etc) Personally I add a little lacquer thinner when I spray them.But it is down to personal choice.You could always try them un-thinned and see how you get on and if needed keep adding a little thinner at a time until you find the optimum thinning ratio for you airbrush set up.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Tamiya acrylics are an excellent media to learn to airbrush on. I would be hard pressed to think of anything else better (perhaps excepting Gunze, which spray as well). Yes, they definately can be used for painting bodies. They can also be easily and effectively mixed to different shades and colors- I've found them to be very flexible for matching factory colors. But be aware that acrylic will be softer than laquer. It's not a problem or even really a limitation, just something to know.

A couple of things: first, I'm not really learning to airbrush; I've been doing it for sometime with Testors paint, but am fed up with the chemical problems. So what I'm saying here is, they may be good to learn with, but are they a good choice for a good quality paint job? I have a limited income and have already bought the body paint for three of my models (Tamiya acrylics). I got them online (because I don't have an 'LHS', and the nearest hobby store doesn't sell Tamiya products). Therefore, I can't return them easily, plus I had to pay shipping. So, I really plan to use them, not get some TS paint instead and basically waste the money.

Second is this: When you say they are softer (I had always thought that), how does that affect me? Does this mean that wear-through while polishing is more common? I use Micromesh 3200, 3600, and 4000, then move to Tamiya fine and then finish compound. This seemed to work well on Testors enamels and lacquers, but will it work with the acrylics (provided I put on, say, 6 or 7 coats of clear)? I try to avoid burning through the clear because scuffing up the base coat changes its color a bit.

Also, how long should a let a good, thick enough coat of paint sit before polishing? A week, two weeks (with the Tam Acrylics)?

Thanks for the help so far, hope you can advise on the other stuff.

Alex

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by 924_CarreraGTS

I'm not really learning to airbrush

Oh yes you are- but really, we're all learning to airbrush. Some of us have just been learning for longer. With regards to Tamiya acrylics, they are a good medium to learn on- you will learn from using them, regardless of if you have experince with other media.

They certainly can be used for an excellent quality paint job. Here are a few I've done with Tamiya acrylics-





Tamiya acrylics were the first paint that I learned to use with consistant, excellent quality results for painting bodies. Whether it will become your favorite media or not depends more on you and the way you paint- but the paint is definately capable of being used for finishes that you will be entirely happy with.

As for being softer, it means mostly that it is more easily damaged than harder finishes. It can be possible to press fingerprints into it, especially if it is applied thickly. Be careful handling it, and hold the body from the inside surfaces when possible. I'd give the clearcoat a week to harden before doing anything else with it. A food dehydrator may help, but I've never tried one.

For polishing, I'm not a fan of micromesh. I absolutely believe that it's always best to spray the paint on well and mess with it as little as possible than to spray it on thick and hope that grinding it will give a good finish. To start with, never use 3200 on paint, regardless of what instructions may say. If your paint has texture that requires 3200 to remove, you have a problem with your spray technique and your efforts will be much better spent learning to put paint on smoothly (reduce your pressure and/or add more thinner, spray in light, thin even coats).

The same can probably be said about 3600. 4000 would be the first and last grit that I would use. After 4000, I would buff the scratches out with rubbing compound- Tamiya medium or McGuire's ScratchX are good options (ScratchX can be found at auto parts stores, and is not really spelled 'McGuires'). If you can get the paint on smooth enough, you don't need micromesh at all. Lately I use only Tamiya coarse, ScratchX, Tamiya fine, and carnuba wax. But then, everyone will develop their own techniques, and experince is really the best teacher.

Good luck, and have fun with it. It definately can be done. If you have questions, feel free to ask.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Originally Posted by MPWR

If your paint has texture that requires 3200 to remove, you have a problem with your spray technique

The problem was that the only clearcoat I could get was Testors spray lacquer. Testors spray cans really don't work well at all, compared to other cans I have used. I bought some Tamiya white primer in the spray can, and I certainly hope the atomizing quality is better than the Testors stuff.

I don't have any Tamiya coarse or medium compound, and getting some would require a third, full-price shipping order online, which I refuse to do at this time. However, I will if absolutely necessary, but will 4000 > Fine > Finish work? That's basically what I've been doing, with good results, except with 3200 > 3600 > before that. If I airbrush the clear I shouldn't need to use those lower grits, right? (unless there is major dust, which is a very real possibility) It seems that should be a successful method.

Oh, one more thing: this might not be a problem anymore if I start with 4000, but I had been experiencing severe burn-through on creases and edges with the 3200 at least. To combat this, I used strips of masking tape on the edges, then removed them before compound. Is this 1) necessary to continue doing and 2) safe? Or should I 1) use Bare-Metal foil or 2) Nothing at all.

Thanks for the help so far.

Alex

[klutz_100]

Originally Posted by 924_CarreraGTS

..

Is this 1) necessary to continue doing - It's not obligatory but as you have seen for yourself, it's a good idea and helps prevent distress and hair loss

2) safe? - Yes

Or should I 1) use Bare-Metal foil - NO

or

2) Nothing at all. - NO

[MPWR]

Yeah, I haven't touched a Testors spray can for a decade now.

The warm water trick can help alot with atomization- definately with Tamiya TS, but also likely with Testors. Either way, I'd use it for the Tamiya primer. Tamiya primer is also sandable- turns out that 3200 micromesh is terrific for this (so is 2000 grit paper). Prime, dry, sand, inspect, fix, reprime, etc., until you have a nice even smooth base to paint on. If you paint on primer with surface texture, the paint will only build on that texture.

Spraying paint or clearcoat with an airbrush certainly doesn't guarantee that you will have less surface texture. It's dependant on your spraying technique. It is entirely possible to get significant texture with an airbrush- which can be useful, too.




But if you're getting undesired texture when spraying, it's better to cure the problem than treat the symptom.

I like to take care of dust (and texture if it occurs) as it happens, usually with a polishing stick. If you see something that needs to be dealt with, stop painting! Give it an hour or so and gently sand it. But you must wait long enough that the paint hardens some- otherwise you'll gouge it.

Burn through is always a danger in polishing. Obviously skipping 3200 will help some. Masking corners can be useful- I like narrow Tamiya tape when I do it.

If 4000, fine and finish is working for you, there's no reason that you won't have similar results with it on acrylics.

[bobss396]

I thin Tamiya acrylics with denatured alcohol. Real inexpensive in pint or quart cans, also good for airbrush cleaning.

Bob