Irritating knocking noises on 3.0 L / Family is sad and scared

[danielsaul]

Regards! I NEED HIS HELP!! I was born in Texas 25 years ago, im living on Mexico City, thousand excuses for my precarious English, and thank you in advance for the support

Voyager 1993, 3 speed auto 3.0 L (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2263896) it still does a pair of months I did several trips to highway handling up to 70 miles per hour without major problem. The engine was running very fine except for leaks on oil pan. The story begins when there broke me the timing belt (93,000 miles, actually 104,500 miles). The mechanic changed the timing belt and water pump only. One year later, same problem. This time the mechanic left a bolt loose (crankshaft-sprocket-pulley) he fixed with my money and 2 months later all the train was affected again, the timing belt was destroyed without strange noises. The mechanic argued me that he did not press any more the screw because it was possible to sweep (?)... also, for not being provided with the suitable tool and I without realizing the damage that it was doing to the engine, to remove the support of engine was loading the engine with a tower supporting it of the crankshaft pulley. Now when I understand why is dangerous for my pocket to do that, what fear this gentleman gives me! and 3 days after of that, the oil pump seal was leaking oil of course....

He was recommended by my in-laws as " the best " anyway, it was then when I decided to do this work in company of my best friend and my wife.. because I do not trust already in the mechanics neither in my in-laws never again LOL

I am the third proprietor of this vehicle and the primary flaw, presumably it had never changed the timing belt neither the pulley tensioner and it was not seen to simple sight that was damaged, it was turning the crankshaft pulley away...

I like the mechanics and I like doing the things well that's why I decided changed myself this items, I bought the whole basic necessary tool and:

-New oil pump (Federal Mogul)
-New water pump
-Full pack of seals, gaskets, o-rings and valve seals (12) (they all were changed including gasket heads except the big seal between engine and transmission)
-New pulley tensioner
-New bearings for accessories belt (2)
-New timing belt and accessories belt
-New bearing for compressor
-Hydraulic valve lifters (12)
-New oil quaker state w10/30, mopar oil filter (first time i use mopar filters, i was using fram without problems)
-In the shop they gave him maintenance to the injectors, apparently they stayed very well...

I cleaned everything, inside it was much saturated of burnt oil and "restore" (now I see that it is not so good)

We put one month fixing this very carefully and and when finally we start the engine SURPRISE! its running very nice and smooth again like before, but now sounds like a big, wonderful and shiny Harley Davidson! the oil pump appears with good pressure, according to the oil pressure meter of the cluster. it is seen that it throws enough oil if i open the oil cap on front valve cover. Sounds like a knock knock knock or maybe sounds like a tap tap tap LOL and this is my first car with hidraulic valve lifters.

Here in Mexico we dont have Lucas products or Marvel mistery oil, nothing of this here, just Casite S.Oil.T.... the knock knock remains after two changes of oil and filter, lubrication problem ?? the oil pump was primed, but lifters not. 180 miles and one Casite S.Oil.T.... have passed up to today and knock remains and is proportional to the engine speed.

The donut gasket on exhaust manifold is ok, all exhaust is OK because no air leaks -I suppose this. No coolant or water on oil, neither oil on water, pcm codes is 12, 55. means all can check the computer is ok.. the new hidraulic valve lifters are "ajusa" (www.ajusa.es), they show identical the original ones...bad brand ?

WHY HAPPEN THIS ? WHAT YOU THINK ??

It would like to be known if I can remove the valve covers, rocker arms if necessary without having to disarm again the timing belt and pulleys of camshafts to review (or is necessary to do this?) and how can isolate the valves and rocker arms to check everything out without making everything daubed on oil ?

I am sure that the timing belt is ok because I was thinking that the problem that Fordaholic raised does 7 or 8 posts http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=703206 is exactly the same that i have, "Sounds like you could have got the timing belt off a tooth on one of the heads" says jsinton on that post. Im not sure, i dont think so because the engine run nice. (Fordaholic... he could already solve his problem fortunately) and mentioned me that it could check the hidraulic valve lifters following the procedure that they come in the Haynes (or Chilton?) manual, whatever, i dont have access to this info, all my knowledge comes from us on internet.

This is my first post on this great site. I like the site and i hope can help to people too.
Limits do not exist for the knowledge.

Thank you very much my friends.

[RIP]

Just incase you haven't yet, connect a timing light and verify the timing is set correctly. Then I would get a mechanics stethoscope and try to pinpoint the source of the knock. Possible but, not probable, you may have installed a bad lifter. I've heard of temporary valve covers with open tops so you can observe the valves and not blow oil all over. I've never seen them though. A compression check might give you a clue.

Here's another source of info. Just click on the headings on the right: http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

Your English? A little fuzzy here and there but, we get the jist of your message.

[jsinton]

Actually I would say your English is pretty good, considering the length and complexity of your post. It's a little hard to understand, but like RIP says... we get it!

Anyway, the 3.0L does not have hydrolic lifters, it has overhead cam. So like RIP says, either you have a bad valve, or maybe the timing belt is off a tooth, like I said before. To check the timing belt, you can remove the upper plastic cover and visually inspect the OHV cam positions. Also, like RIP says, do a compression check, it might reveal which valve you have a problem with.

If it's neither of those work, and you are tired of working on it, try a can of engine oil treatment like you can buy in Walmart (you got Walmart in Mexico, don't you?). It's really thick and it might quiet down the noise somewhat.

Another thing you should know is if you break the timing belt on this van, it does NOT hurt the valves. This is called a non-interference motor. You can just replace the timing belt and it should be ok. Also, the crankshaft pully bolt does not have to be tight, as the rotation of the engine is usually enough to keep it from unscrewing itself.

Hope that helps, good luck!

[danielsaul]

Hello again! Thanks for the right answers, it's true. The engine has not been checked yed with the timing light. The stetoscope hasn't to be used, i was believe with the valve cover mounted doesn't work for listen the lifters. First, i will buy a compression tester to do the test and be more accurate.

I will check the timing belt again, why not ? the engine oil treatment was used 5 days ago, was buyed on Walmart, that´s true jajaja, but i only found Casite super oil treatment and Restore, and i dont like restore already (great product, great deposits of cupper on pan oil too).

The truth is that I am going to continue case to all his advices and I will keep them informed to know the ending now when I removed the cover valves and find the error on lifters or valves or when it composes the engine of the timing belt.

Thanks!

[danielsaul]

Regards! Its only to say thankyou very much to all people for advise.. I was use the stethoscope, and the timing light and the knock sound come from valves on cylinder 2, the problem now was solved, one lifter was inverted on position, i put a new one and then i went to see a part of my family, 1000 miles away from home, i discover that engine is able to run up to 90 mph or more and the engine sounds very nice.

One more thing, abusing the confidence... is about the timing belt, sometimes a part slide outside of camshaft sprockets and others are normal. It already changes the timing belt tensioner (for a new) but the problem stills, I think that screw (of timing belt tensioner) could be "crooked" any idea ?

Automotive forums, Great site! Im addicted LOL

[RIP]

Glad to hear you had some success repairing your van. Thank you for letting us know.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying your timing belt sometimes slips off the sprockets and you think it's caused by a crooked bolt on the tensioner not holding the tensioner tight. Is that correct?

I'm guessing the crooked bolt is crooked because it was misalighned when it was installed and forced in the bolt hole. Is this what could have happened? To correct it, remove the bolt and reform the threads in the bolt hole using a tap. A tap is made of hardened steel and when inserted carves new threads in the bolt hole. You'll have to find the correct size tap and find a new bolt to install. When you install the new bolt, coat it with a liquid called "Lock-tite" to help hold it in place.