"Properly" polishing out gloss black paint

[Captain Mark]

Hi all,

I'm currently building a Fujimi Mini One, and am painting the roof gloss black. It's the first time I've had to actually paint a large area all black, as opposed to component parts of a car.

The problem I'm having (which I may have had with all my builds and didn't realise due to the colour) is that I polish it up to a very high gloss, but when held under a strong light I can still see very small scratches all over the full area. Not acceptable!

On my last, and so far best attempt, I used Tamiya primer which was sanded and polished with 2000grit and Tamiya Compound. Then shot Tamiya gloss black (TS range, can't recall the number), a number of heavy coats to make it reasonably thick. After a few days of hardening I used Tamiya Compound (just the regular stuff) to get a 'good' shine, then MicroMark Micro Gloss to get a 'great' shine, then Tamiya Modeling Wax to finish it off.

Normally this would give me very good results, but with black paint I just can't seem to do it - the tiny scratches remain. I've also tried up to 12000 grit sanding cloths, but I get a better effect with the Compound actually - perhaps my cloths are getting too old.

Is it feasible to expect to get these scratches out?
Does anyone see an error in my method?
Any advice or opinions on what I could do better to get an absolute mirror smooth finish?

Any help appreciated.
Cheers,
Mark

[klutz_100]

Mark, if it makes you feel any better, you should know that black is the WORST color in the world in this respect. I had the same story with my Boxster SE.

Apart from using the finest compouds/waxes to finish off also pay attention to the cloth you are using. IMO it is the cloth that is scratching the paint and leaving swirls etc.

To avoid this, there are 2 routes I guess:

1. Lay such a good final wet coat that polishing is superfluous
2. Put clear over teh black and polish the clear coat. I suppose this would reduce/remove the problem?

Hope my 2cents help

[Captain Mark]

I never thought about the cloth actually. I always use clean parts of the cloth, but admittedly it's an older cloth.

I thought also about just polishing the clear over the black, but I figured the slight orange peel would show through easily - can anyone confirm or deny this?

Unfortunately spraying great topcoats isn't my specialty yet. It's the polishing where I tend to have better skill.

Oh, does anyone have any suggestions on what type of cloth I should be using with my Compound???

[klutz_100]

If you want to know whether the clear will "even out" any orange peel, you can try the water test.

Hold the part in question under the tap in a mild stream of water. As the water runs over the part it will behave like a clear. Any faults that can still be seen need to be removed, any that become invisible will likely be invisible under the clear (this worked for me when I had problems with my Prowler. I was surprised just how much the clear could cope with orange peel etc.)

It's not so much the age of the cloth I guess as the coarseness/weave. I have started using spectacle cleaning cloths for very fine polishing.

OK, end of my lunch break - someone else can post now

[stevenoble]

I just started using a microfibre cloth for polishing my models (available at most auto detail stores) The fibres are incredibly soft and they entrap any small dirt particles deep in the pile where they can do no damage to your painted surface.I've only used it a couple of times but the difference is amazing.I also agree with Klutz_100,a clearcoat could be a good method to use over the black.The microfibre cloth I use is made by Poorboys World,I think I got it from E Bay (about £4) It's also washable in the washing machine when it gets dirty/soiled so you can use it over and over again.

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Apart from using the finest compouds/waxes to finish off also pay attention to the cloth you are using. IMO it is the cloth that is scratching the paint and leaving swirls etc.

Spot on, my friend- that's likely where the scratches are coming from. Get a chunk of 100% cotton flanel from a fabric store. Here I can usually find it for $8USD/yard(metre), and 1/4 yard will last years. Run it through the wash, and keep it somewhere that it won't pick up dust/grit etc. Cut a new 2" square for whatever new polishing compound your using, and don't reuse them.

I've also taken to clearcoating everything. I've learned to get laquer clear on very smooth (gravity feed airbrush, <15psi, lots of reducer, and lots of patience), so it takes less work to polish. But polishing clearcoat gives two advantages- 1, it means I'm less likely to wear a thin spot in the paint, and B, it means I'm always polishing the same medium, so I know how it's likely to behave.

[fredo]

Why wouldn't you use cotton pads (like the ones women use to remove make up, or medical cotton (this one you can be sure is pure)) ? It's very soft and I think this is the stuff the pro (1:1) use to polish cars.

[hirofkd]

I use cleaning cloth for eye glasses. That's the finest, cheapest and most commonly available cloth I can think of... Or, maybe it's time for you to invent some money on...
http://www.hlj.com/product/HSGTT-23
or
http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM87090
and especially...this.
http://www.hlj.com/product/HSGTT-25

I'm sure there are other alternatives to these clothes, but Hasegawa's Ceramic Compound is the finest polishing material I've ever used. Rainbow Ten, Hobby Search and Hobby World have it in stock.

[bvia]

Use a quality microfiber cloth for the final polish and wax coating or use an auto-2 part clear and polish that. The microfiber cloth will keep the stray scratches to a minimum or the auto-2 part clear is a harder paint and will not not collect the micro-scratches as easily.
hth,
Bill

[bvia]

Originally Posted by fredo

Why wouldn't you use cotton pads (like the ones women use to remove make up, or medical cotton (this one you can be sure is pure)) ? It's very soft and I think this is the stuff the pro (1:1) use to polish cars.

Because it's very abrasive. It's really good for applying polishing compound, but no so great for the final polish/wax coats. Remember a scratch on a 1:1 car is multiplied 24 times on a 1:24th scale model.

hth,
Bill

[Dave5.0]

Originally Posted by bvia

Because it's very abrasive. It's really good for applying polishing compound, but no so great for the final polish/wax coats. Remember a scratch on a 1:1 car is multiplied 24 times on a 1:24th scale model.

hth,
Bill

Well put.......I use a Glasses/lens cleaning cloth and it seems to work great!

[924_CarreraGTS]

The advice that has been given is very good; however, here is my method which seems to work well also. I paint, then clear coat, which hides most flaws (other than large dust in light-colored paint). At that point (with plenty of clear), I polish up to 4000 grit with cloths, then switch to Tamiya fine and then finish compound. Once, before I first bought compound, I polished up to 12000, then, when I got compound, I used the finish. This restored the shine and left the paint virtually perfect. However, polishing this far increases your chances of wear-through. But definitely, clear-coating is helpful.

[Captain Mark]

Good news guys, I'm making progress.
I just realised after all the talk of high qaulity polishing cloths, that I had one of these in the MicroMark polishing kit I ordered some time ago, but had never used.

I got my job to the point I've mentioned above, threw away the old dodgy cloth, used the new one with some MicroMark Micro Gloss, and got an "almost" perfect finish! A bit more practise and I'll be there - and I have a sneaking suspicion the blemishes left are from 'stuff' actually getting in the paint during application.

Cheers all!
Mark

[bobss396]

Polishing kit cloths get old and clogged up, especially those in the 8000-12000 range. I've just about stopped using the pads at that point, I go to 6000 grit and then polish it out with Meguiars Show Car Glaze, they also make a similar product called Swirl Remover, I have yet to try it.

I apply the Meguiars (comes in a squeeze bottle) to a piece from an OLD well washed flannel shirt. I tend to go with the grain of the car and not in circles. Just wipe it on, polish in even long strokes, wipe it off and you're good to go.

I also agree that polishing the clear is safer than polishing the paint in many cases.

The edges of the Micro Mesh cloths take the worst beating, I just cut the edges off on some of mine, like having a new cloth. Also use a few drops of dishwashing soap in the dip water, it lubricates, keeps the pads cleaner longer and less likely to clog up. Never use the cloths dry.

Bob

[Didymus]

I just had the same experience as the OP, trying to remove the haze from a very dark color. I got down to 12000 Micro-Mesh, still hazy, went back to 8000, then 12000 again, and got a much better result, but in the right light, a micro haze is still visible, even with wax. I'm pretty sure the scratch pattern is 12000-size, and not from an earlier grit. I didn't use any cloth in the process, only Micro-Mesh pads.

Now I'm looking for something even finer/softer than 12000. An extensive Google search for ultra-fine abrasives has produced:

-- Britemax Black Max
-- Microfinish (Scientific Instrument Services)
-- 1Z Einsett Waxpolish Soft
-- Hasegawa's Ceramic Compound
-- Tamiya Finish Compound
-- Meguiar's Show Car Glaze
-- Meguiar's Show Swirl Remover
-- Micro-Mesh micro gloss (Hobbico)

Have I missed something even finer than any of these? Has anyone compared any of these to each other, or to 12000 Micro-Mesh?

(This is my first post! I'm returning to modeling after a LONG hiatus. Hi, all.)

Didymus aka Tom