So how valuable is 'constructive criticism'?

[MPWR]

EDIT: Yes, I meant 'constructive' in the title

So not surprisingly, the topic has come up again of what should and shouldn't be said in build and completed threads. Since it came up last time, I've been wondering just how valuable constructive criticism is in a forum like this.

Since I joined this forum a few years ago, my skills as a car modeller have improved dramatically- I would say in a very large part because of my paticipation here. A big part of my improvement is of course due to the vast amount of information availible here, and getting to see other people's ideas and techniques in use. There's constant inspiration here- seeing other peoples work just makes me want to build, to try different things, and to recreate great stuff I've seen for myself. Of course I've been building more as a result of being active here, and the best way to learn to build is to build. Yet I've recieved very little constructive criticism here. Maybe a two or three times someone has pointed something out to me and it has been useful- but in general it really hasn't happened, and as a result it's not been a method by which I've improved.

So I'm curious to hear other views on it. Has constructive criticism been useful to you? Have you even received any? Has it been important tool to increase your skills?

[rod_k2]

Well,i'm a newb here,so everything that someone says to me it's useful,since my skills aren't good. I don't know if it's that what you were looking for to hear,but you don't receive criticism, because it's VERY hard to see one flaw in your models. As for example,your F50,I was so amazed when I saw it,the details and all,that I couldn't see the mistakes. That's the price of becoming a great modeler!

[freakray]

With the exception of the last criticism which I received which was totally misguided, I have always received criticism of a positive nature.

[quadzero]

The only criticism you could receive, Mpwr is that your models make most of us look like brick layers. I would agree your builds are basically flawless. For me, since I have joined AF my skills have improved ten-fold (for instance, in pre-AF days, orange peel was an acceptable part of painting and stance was irrelevant as long as at least 3 wheels touched the ground) and my participation in the hobby has gone from maybe a month of modelling a year to almost a full time affair. But it all came from just interacting and sharing with everyone that shares my joy of modelling. All my feedback and critiques were of a very postive nature and when people take note of what you do, you just want to get better and push harder.

[Dean23]

I find with any of my builds I just get a few comments, no tips and constructive criticism. Mostly nice work, good paint etc.....I wish i would hear more about my build, so I can learn more and see if my building skills are going in the right direction!

[SchuberT]

For a person who is struggling with a concept or technique, sure, constructive criticism is great. You, MPWR, didn't seem have a problem grasping all of the new stuff, and so it didn't really appear necessary.

I suppose it depends on the type of person as well. If you're full of confidence in yourself, I doubt it's necessary for someone else to tell you what you can do better. You probably already know.

[mike@af]

For me it really depends on how it is phrased. I like to hear different ideas, or how I can improve something. What I hate is when people completely disregard what I may have accomplished and only point out the bad. I think that goes for a lot of people here. If you only point out the bad then the builder is going to get discouraged.

Constructive criticism is often misguided too. People just point out the bad and dont offer how to fix it. Thats not helping anyone, thats just being demeaning and berating the builder with their flaws.

I love the kind remarks, who doesnt? However, I also like to see where I can improve, but dont disregard what I have done and just rip me apart. I think thats what it boils down to. If you want to criticize, please propose a solution instead of just pointing out the problem; that way you're helping not just belittling.

[klutz_100]

How valuable is a forum where you can't discuss anything in a more than tepid and lackluster manner?

I can't for the life of me see why the "Potshots at Turkeys" thread was locked

Oh well, back to posting "awsome", "suuuuuuper" and "that rocks, dude!" I suppose.....but NEVER will I post "that's sick!" (oh crap! I left the apostrophe in the right place! )

[willimo]

I honestly feel, and I say this at risk of falling into the closed-thread trap like Oli has, that a few people here need a lot more crticism than they're getting. I've also decided that the wises course of action, as someone who likes to help fellow modelers (and not that I'm even at the level where I really have any right to, honestly), is to just keep my mouth shut unless the builder shows promise or seems to be able to maturely accept the criticisms.

[dolittle67]

I personally don't think any sort of "criticism" is constructive in model building. To me, my building is an expression of how I interpret a subject and my level of skill at that particular time. I use reference pics etc and build what I see. This may be different to what someone else sees and how they build based on their skills etc. Sure, give your comments, ideas, knowledge and experience etc, but leave the criticism to those who take the whole modelling thing way too seriously!

[CeeElle]

as a newbie who's finishing his fourth build, i've yet to post a WIP or completed project because i don't yet feel my skills are up to a level that i feel is within the same ballpark as those builders i admire.

that said, when i finally do post a WIP, i will appreciate constructive criticism and/or suggestions for improving my skills. what i WILL NOT appreciate is a forum where people are in ANY way constrained in their ability to say whatever they like, however they like.

if you chose to be helpful and say, "the paint looks a little flat. you might want to try...", hey, great - i'll thank you for the tip.

if, on the other hand, you want to say, "yo - your skills suck more than a $20 crackwhore, and that model looks like it was painted by stevie wonder on a bad acid trip," then I'll laugh at you, consider you an asshole and pretty much ignore everything you say until your dying day.

i would like to think that everyone else here is smart enough and mature enough to do the same thing, thereby freeing us all from the tyranny of worrying we might offend someone or, worse yet, create an environment where even my crappiest build garners the same praise as, say, Robrex's latest stunner. that doesn't serve anyone, and renders this place little more than a pic post.

if someone wants to be an asshole, let him (or her) be an asshole. he'll soon be ignored by all, and we'll all have a good laugh at his (or her) expense. and i will quote voltaire in saying, "i may not agree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it."

just my two cents.

[ales]

Originally Posted by dolittle67

I personally don't think any sort of "criticism" is constructive in model building. To me, my building is an expression of how I interpret a subject and my level of skill at that particular time. I use reference pics etc and build what I see. This may be different to what someone else sees and how they build based on their skills etc. Sure, give your comments, ideas, knowledge and experience etc, but leave the criticism to those who take the whole modelling thing way too seriously!

This is something I totally disagree with. If you don't want criticism, you should either build a perfect model or, when you post your work, say you expect to hear only praise in the comments. There just isn't any other way to develop your skills and grow as a modeller than letting others post their honest opinion, share their tips/experience with you and actually listening to what they say. Otherwise your "skill level at that particular time" will remain constant for longer than needed.

[CeeElle]

and, of course, there's the argument that you should build only to please yourself, which is pretty much what dolittle just said. word ta dat.

[willimo]

Color choices, wheel choices, style choices; those are all up to the builder and in my opinion, are hard to give tips on, unless the builder is asking (ie "Should I paint it purple with orange polka dots?" Probably not).

However, when posting on a forum such as this, the builder is leaving himself open to suggestions to make a model more accurate (ie "Spraying a little closer to the model, as well as some polishing, can cure that orange peel," "On a big block Chevy, the distributor wired as such, not as you've built it"). That's part of the learning experience. I doubt there are many modelers that are happy with where they are in the modeling skill spectrum, I'd expect a pretty much universal desire to do better next time. Even builders like ScaleMaster undoubtedly have areas that they look at and think, "Gee, next time I'll have to try it this other way." If not, I fear that for most of us, the fun of the hobby would be fleeting.

To me, that is the only reason to post projects here. There is of course, model building community, the transfer of ideas, and the ability just to bullshit about building. But as far as posting one's work? That's expressly to 1. show what one can do, and how (for other's benefit), and to 2. expose one's work to the light of day so that others who have had the same problems or can see things that've been missed can share their experience and knowledge (for the builder's benefit).

[DVST8R]

I would love some constructive criticism. I've only been back in the hobby for about 9 months, after dropping it for about 4 or 5 years. I can definately see a large improvement from the first car i built since starting again to the most recent one. I know i can still improve further though.
You guys have brought to my attention stuff that i never knew existed, like microsol/microset, krystal klear and photetch. I started primering and sanding a few months ago and they have improved my paintjobs. Theres lots of stuff i still can learn, and would love for someone to see my build, say "no you're doing it the wrong way, this is the right way to do it".
As long as someone gives you an answer to your problem i.e this is what you're doing wrong and here is how you fix it then i think its very important part of the forum.