1995 oldsmobile Delta 88/ won't run

[akmechanic]

This car will not run after a re-man engine was installed. I have replaced the P.C.M and checked all power and grounds to computer and on the engine block. I have had the ignition module tested and it works. I have also replaced the coil packs. The car acts like it is seriousley out of time. So I checked cam timing and its right on. Compression is 160. I put a noid light on the injector wire harness and it is flashing. Checked fuel pressure it is 48 PSI and I have scanned all sensors on the engine with a genisis, everything seems to be within range. The only sensor that wasn't changing values is the crank sensor. It is supposed to have 0-2 advance-retard but not sure if it has to run to get that. Scanner info says 0-2 and its at 0. But the veichle has not run. Can I be fighting a cam or crank sensor? No codes are present or in history. Thank you for your time and look forward to hearing back from you.
Thank you, Mark

[curtis73]

Have you confirmed that you injector firing order is correct. Usually they'll run if the firing order is off, but poorly.

Otherwise it sounds like you've done your homework. Those rotational sensors can be a pain since they don't usually make testable values until the car is running, but if they fail the car won't run Sorta backwards.

[akmechanic]

Thanks for the reply. I will check the order again and make sure it's correct.

[UncleBob]

first off, which motor is it. Is the 8th vin letter a K or an L. Both are 3.8L V6's, but L had sequential injection, K did not. There are many notable differences between the two, so that bit of info would help.

The injectors being out of order shouldn't prevent it from starting....it'll just make it idle poopy. You say you had ignition module tested, but does the car have spark when you crank it?

I wouldn' trust "module testing". The proper way to test a module is verify all the inputs with a scope, and if everything is good, then its the module. I've seen too many module testers be flat up wrong.

You say it cranks like the timing is way off. Do you mean it cranks hard, and/or is it popping through the intake?

Some suggestions: the crank trigger is ran off a tone ring on the inside of the hamonic balancer. Its very fragile and can easily be damaged, especially if you didn't use the proper puller.

I have other suggestions if none of those pan out, but fill in the missing info

[akmechanic]

The 8th vin is a K. It has spark on all three coil packs. Yes, it's popping through the intake and it labors the starter. I have inspected the tone ring and it's fine. I used the proper puller for this car too.
Thanks for your time!

[UncleBob]

OK, how did you check cam timing? Did you pull the timing cover?

Did you make sure that the cam sprocket had the same references for the cam sensor as the old one?

Silly question....plug wires are in right order, and rechecked twenty times?

[akmechanic]

No I didn't pull the front cover to check the timing, but the compression is fine. Wich tells me that the timing is proper. I have also pulled the valve cover and made sure the valves were closed on the compession stroke on #1 cylinder.
Quote: Did you make sure that the cam sprocket had the same references for the cam sensor as the old one?
No I haven't pulled the front cover yet to check that out but it is a new re-man engine.
Yes, I have rechecked the firing order (20+ times) and tried the only other firing order for a 3.8L supercharged hoping it had the wrong cam in it.
Thanks for your quick response!

Mark

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by akmechanic

No I didn't pull the front cover to check the timing, but the compression is fine. Wich tells me that the timing is proper.

very bad assumption!

I have also pulled the valve cover and made sure the valves were closed on the compession stroke on #1
cylinder

that only tells you that the timing is within 90* of where it should be.

No I haven't pulled the front cover yet to check that out but it is a new re-man engine.
Yes, I have rechecked the firing order (20+ times) and tried the only other firing order for a 3.8L supercharged hoping it had the wrong cam in it.
Thanks for your quick response!

Mark

Keep in mind, if everything was exactly as its supposed to be, it would be running. We can only recheck what "should be fine" until we find the problem. From what you've discribed so far, if it was me, that timing cover would be coming off.

One other question, did the car run with the old engine? Why was it replaced?

[Scrapper]

you sure theres not a crack in the CPS ?????

[UncleBob]

it definitely could be either the crank or cam sensor. But if the car ran before, it seems rather odd to me that it would suddenly fail when the only thing that has changed is the engine its bolted to.

But you would need to use a 'scope to check the pattern on the sensors. There's no other way to test it properly, but that won't tell you if they are timed properly (well....it could if you are really really intimate with how the two are timed, but I know I'm not)

[Scrapper]

yes there is a tool if thats what your talking about i usually go to ray rudd dealer ship and borrow a tool if i don't have 1 but i have set them with brass guages i use...but i did have 1 crack before..it wouldn't run misted like crazy..and i'm not trying to into it with you again bob..and i guess your right if you only changed bolts..what state you in anyway?????

[akmechanic]

Check this out guys... I went to install the balancer and noticed I could not FIND the keyway! And upon futher investigation, the mechanic that had installed the engine, pushed the balancer on and CRUSHED the keyway causing the engine to be 90+ degrees off. I suppose that is why that mechanic got fired and I was hired, he was turning out work such as that. I haven't put it back together yet but, I'm confident that will cure the problem. Once again, Thanks again for your knowledge Unclebob, you helped alot with troubleshooting the problem. It just goes to show that you can fix a car with properly installed parts but there is no test procedure for improperly installed parts. If there is anything I can do for any of the tech questions, please feel free to ask. I'll stop by and answer a few ?'s when I have time.
Thanks again for your time,
Mark P.S. I live in Palmer, Alaska

[UncleBob]

Always check the basics!

Glad you found it

[akmechanic]

It was a mystery.... I'll let you know how it runs.

[akmechanic]

I put it back together and it runs great!!! No other issues and the owner is very happy to have their rig back after all their troubles.