What was the best Muscle car build???

[chadis]

What is the best allaround muscle car build with no aftermarket parts complety stock with factory options???

[Whumbachumba]

If I remember correctly, there was a show that tested the 10 most popular muscle cars, and I think the Boss 429 did the best overall, but that was out of the ones they tested.

[MrPbody]

The test was flawed. A Mustang is not a "muscle car", it is a "pony car" (actually, the car the class was named for).

The test was flawed. They used a true muscle car from the GM divisions, but no other.

The test was flawed. They used a 454 Chevelle, a 455 Olds 442, a 455 Buick GS and a 400 GTO.

The test was flawed. They used a Chrysler Hemi in a pony car, and put it out there with a bad clutch. They used the Rambler AMX, a 2-seater. There was no Charger, no Road Runner, no Rebel, no Torino, no Cyclone... Like I said, the test was flawed.

So, define "best". Year for year? Or across the '64-'72 "Muscle Car Era"?

This is a loaded subject, to say the least, but I'll try to be objective.

GTO, first one, '64. 442 followed fairly soon. '65, still only tokenism from Chevy (L-79 Chevelle), GS had SOME guts, nothing from Ford, Chrysler or AMC. '66, highest sales year for GTO, Chevelle FINALLY comes with a reasonably priced BB, making it official, it's a muscle car, still nothing of consequence from Ford, Chrysler (Charger was introduced, but not "pushed") or AMC. Fairlane GT and Cyclone GT arrived.

By '67, Chrysler had one. GTX. NASTY SOB! Some of those cars were down right scary in a straight line. GTO stepped up to a nicer level. Chevelle SS got 375 HP, GS didn't do much, 442 got a nice new 400 engine, and Charger had more options.

'68 GTO, Motor Trend "Car of the Year", mainly due to the color-keyed Endura nose. All GM A-bodies got a very nice redesign. Early versions of the Hurst Olds showed up with 455 Olds engines. Road Runner arrived, and Charger came of age. (IMO, '68-'70 Charger is one of the prettier muscle cars).

'69, Chevelle was gaining ground on GTO sales. "The Judge" arrived, again "raising the bar". While still quite a capable performer, The Judge was also a very NICE car, both to look at AND drive. Road Runner and Charger didn't change much, and power options stayed virtually the same. AMC entered the field with "The Machine", a 390 (AMC)-powered Rebel. Not much sales, though. I liked the ads. "It may not beat a new Corvette, but it sure can handle your old man's Caddy!" or something to that effect...

'70 was the last great year for muscle cars. Nothing really new, expcept GM lifted the voluntary "ban" on engines larger than 400 CID for intermediates. So we got 454 Chevelles, 455 GTOs, 442s and GSs. Once some of these big-cubed monsters got out, Dodge and Plymouth were scratchin' and beggin' for some relief. Hemi cars were just too rare, and lousy as street machines. An LS-6 Chevelle, or Ram Air IV GTO, were more than a match for 440 GTXs, which up until '70, were pretty much the nastiest streetable cars as delivered.

So, all that said, it depends on whether you measure "best" as straight line performance, or all-around. If "straight line", LS-6 Chevelle and Hemi GTX get my vote. If you mean all-around, it's hands-down, GTO. Far and away, the best "balance". If you outrun a GTO in a straight line, chances are you won't touch it around the corners. If you could beat it around corners, chances are, it will take YOU, in a straight line. Not only that, and this is where it gets subjective, the dash and instrumentation in GTO was always much nicer than any of the others. By '70, if you add the handling package, it was pretty tough to beat a GTO.

The last paragraph may seem completely slanted, but in reality, GTO outsold ALL other muscle cars COMBINED from '64 through '69. Sales started to fall in '70 for a variety of reasons, and it affected all the manufacturers. '70 was the first year SS outsold GTO.

Now, all of this assumes a muscle car as defined: "intermediate body, large engine". The debate about what is or is not a muscle car will rage forever. But this is what it was considered to be during the "era".

Jim

[corning_d3]

If I had to guess, I'd say Chrysler/Dodge had the best out there. Bullet-proof drivetrains, man! Think of that old 727 torqueflight!!

[Ztrain]

Best?the GTO.Because EVERY SINGLE muscle car that came after it,owes their existance to the 64 GTO.That includes the present day 'Vette.

Now which was the fastest?Let the discussion begin.

[chadis]

what about the GSX stage 1'S i was told unbeatable on straight line runs

[scott303]

68' Hemi Dodge Dart is the fastest factory muscle car in history(running 10's with little to no modifications, too bad there were only 80 of them....)

[ClassicFastCars]

The Pontiac GTO was the first Muscle Car. In my opinion there were many great Muscle Cars from the Big Three! Impossible to say which one was the best! Check out www.ClassicFastCars.com. There lots of great articles, photos, and historical information about muscle cars and classic cars in general. Also restoration tips, technical info, production data and more. Great free site for all Classic and Muscle Car enthusiast! Mark Greeno

[MrPbody]

Hemi Darts are "Super Stock Specials" and not a muscle car. Their classification is the same as a Nova SS396, Falcon Sprint, etc. They're called "sport compact". Not only that, less than 1,000 were made. Hardly a car for "the masses". VERY FAST!

The GS Stage 1 was a good performer, but nothing is unbeatable. Dodge sold the SuperBee "6-Pack" in '70, with a guarentee of 12s in the 1/4. The Buick went mid 13s, as did the Chevelle LS-6, GTO Ram Air IV, 440 Road Runner, etc. Stage 1 cars are so rare, also, who cares?

That last is based on mass-production versus "1-off" cars. 95% of the GSs built wouldn't run mid 14s. 80% of the SS396s, GTOs, Road Runner/Charger (440 cars) would run low 14s to high 13s.

FWIW

Jim

[arthuramazing]

Opinion, of course. But if you are looking at the fastest 4 seater car from 62-74 it is the 1970 Buick GS 455 and it was fast. The Hemi Roadrunner or Plymouth GTX would be a very close second along with the 1970 Chevelle SS 454.

Someone posted there was a Hemi Dart that ran in the 10s stock. NOT TRUE. There would have been a LOT of mods to get it into the 10s. Very few muscle cars got into the 13s on factory tires. In fact most muscle cars were 15 second cars. The ones that were fast were hardly streetable.

Still, they are the coolest cars ever built!

[Madcat455]

I'm slanted towards the GS's myself too. I absolutley LOVE the GTO's, would love to have a Challenger too... hell I like'em all.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "THE BEST" MUSCLE CAR!!!!!.... every test is pointless as the cars were modded (slightly to severley in some tests).

The only truth is this... ANY STOCK MUSCLE CAR WILL BEAT ANY OTHER STOCK MUSCLE CAR at one point or another. It's all in the driver, tuning, weather, lunar cycle, and Jupiters orbital position.... that's why tests are scewed, as driver error, weather conditions, and the general tune of the car can cost as much as 1sec in quarter times.

Example... one year at Stanton, me and 2 buddies were racing. 1 had a 80's mustang 302 with headers and nitrous. Best he could do was 13.55.... My other friend (long time racer) gets in the car, 1st time ever driving it, and tears off a 12.50 pass without ever lifting the hood... THE DRIVER MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!!!!.

Make up your own mind and leave the pot unstirred

You can't go wrong with owning ANY Muscle car. buy one... build it... and drive it like you mean it.

[PeteRR]

'68-'70 GTX's could be optioned out the yin-yang and with either a 440 or 426 Hemi.

[samandiar]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

Hemi Darts are "Super Stock Specials" and not a muscle car. Their classification is the same as a Nova SS396, Falcon Sprint, etc. They're called "sport compact". Not only that, less than 1,000 were made. Hardly a car for "the masses". VERY FAST!

The GS Stage 1 was a good performer, but nothing is unbeatable. Dodge sold the SuperBee "6-Pack" in '70, with a guarentee of 12s in the 1/4. The Buick went mid 13s, as did the Chevelle LS-6, GTO Ram Air IV, 440 Road Runner, etc. Stage 1 cars are so rare, also, who cares?

That last is based on mass-production versus "1-off" cars. 95% of the GSs built wouldn't run mid 14s. 80% of the SS396s, GTOs, Road Runner/Charger (440 cars) would run low 14s to high 13s.

FWIW

Jim

No way a six pack bee could run 12s on stock tires with no mods

[MrPbody]

As an official "old fart", I recall a TV commercial where they showed one ('70 SuperBee 6-Pack) going 12.90s. They made the claim, not me... I'm a GTO guy, tried and true.

PAX

Jim

[samandiar]

That commercial was obviously BS