Starting

[sick and tired]

Yeah so I have posted about my starting problems here before but still no luck cannot find what the problem is and i am sick of just replacing things. But I just remembered when it all started. The first really cold day in the winter it was minus 20 celcius outside and my car froze and i tried and tried to start it but wouldn't start. Then finally i got it started and the engine light was on so i got it scanned and it was a misfire and they told me that it was since i flooded it when trying to get it started that is why but ever since then it is difficult to start i have to crank it 3 or more times to get it to start especially when it is really hot out. But if i let it sit for 2 days and go and start it it starts right up. I don't know if it is jsut the plugs or not but that is when it all started. No engine lights on now. It is doesn't have the pep it used to and it is horrible on gas now.

It is a 98 3.8 Intrigue. and only 89,000 kms on it.

[BNaylor]

So far what have you checked or replaced? How old is the fuel filter? Basics like ignition or fuel. Have you run a fuel pressure test at the Schrader valve located on the fuel pressure regulator to see if it is in specs? Have you checked physically for spark at any one of the spark plugs? Possibility of a flaky crank position sensor if fuel checks out.

[sick and tired]

I have replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs and wires all due to previous problems. My fuel pressure was checked and that is fine. But i thought that if there was something wrong with the crank sensor that a code would come up or i would have stalling issues. I have also had the water pump replaced because they said that it was leaking on the crank sensor but they said that it wouldn't have hurt the sensor.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by sick and tired

I have replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs and wires all due to previous problems. My fuel pressure was checked and that is fine. But i thought that if there was something wrong with the crank sensor that a code would come up or i would have stalling issues. I have also had the water pump replaced because they said that it was leaking on the crank sensor but they said that it wouldn't have hurt the sensor.

A bad crank sensor doesn't always set a DTC error code and trigger the SES/CEL Mil light. It is a Hall Effects sensor and temperature sensitive especially to heat once it heads South on you. When suspected all you can do is replace it to rule it out. Also, check the electrical connector at the CKPS sensor for corrosion. Remove and clean with electrical contact cleaner. Ley dry.

A flaky CKPS will typically give 3 basic symptoms. No start (no spark), hard starting/excessive cranking or stalling.

[prsoto21]

I am having the same problem as Sick and Tired. One night in the winter I had a hard start and was very choppy after it started. I had the codes read at Autozone and found out it was a random misfire. I filled up my gas tank that night and in the morning my gas lines froze. Ever since I have had ignition problems. Sometimes it will fire up on one turn, but mostly it is a very hard start. I have changed fuel pressure regulator, and the wire set. Dealer says it's a check valve in the fuel pump, but I am reluctant to buy due to other posted comments about fuel pump not fixing the issue. Please help us out.

3800 76,000 miles

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by prsoto21

I am having the same problem as Sick and Tired. One night in the winter I had a hard start and was very choppy after it started. I had the codes read at Autozone and found out it was a random misfire. I filled up my gas tank that night and in the morning my gas lines froze. Ever since I have had ignition problems. Sometimes it will fire up on one turn, but mostly it is a very hard start. I have changed fuel pressure regulator, and the wire set. Dealer says it's a check valve in the fuel pump, but I am reluctant to buy due to other posted comments about fuel pump not fixing the issue. Please help us out.

3800 76,000 miles

I'd take what the dealer says with a grain of salt. They make big bucks off of selling you a fuel pump assembly and the labor. Best way to test the fuel pump is with a fuel pressure gauge ($25.00) which connects to the Schrader valve on the fuel pressure regulator. See if in specs. You run the test with ignition on/engine off fuel pump prime and with engine running at idle. The service manual calls for 48 - 55 psi depending on how it is tested. At least that can be ruled out because other things can cause your problem.

[sick and tired]

I have replaced my crank position sensor and no luck the same problem. Any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[steffenk]

When I had a problem with the engine cranking extensively before starting, I found the fuel press regulator (FPR) to be bad. Replacing this (easy) fixed the problem. There was fuel in the vac line though, which you probably do not seen since you said the FPR checked out okay.

[sick and tired]

Can you tell me where to locate the fuel pressure regulator on the 3.8 and vacuum hose. i don't know much about what things look like and where to find them. I would like to check it out myself since none of the mechanics I have taken the car to are much help.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by sick and tired

Can you tell me where to locate the fuel pressure regulator on the 3.8 and vacuum hose. i don't know much about what things look like and where to find them. I would like to check it out myself since none of the mechanics I have taken the car to are much help.

See item circled in red below. The vacuum line is directly on it as is the Schrader valve:


Series II 3800

BTW - Replacing the FPR is easy. The top part is held on to the fuel rail bracket with a c-clip retainer.

[steffenk]

bnaylor's pic should be exactly what you need.

I also borrowed this from pigsnzen's Jan 2004 post:
Take off the decorative cover on the engine. A black fuel rail shaped like a "U" will be on the top of the engine. On the back side of the engine, near the brake master cylinder, is the fuel pressure regulator - at one end of the "U".

It's a very easy fix. If you do replace it, be sure to lube the o-rings with a bit of oil to help them go in (I had to press somewhat hard to replace mine).

******

If you're still interested in checking the FPR before you replace, simply pull the vacuum hose off of the FPR and check for ANY fuel in the line. I did not notice this the first time I checked mine, but when I checked again before replacing, there was the tiniest amount of fuel there. Again, the part is pretty to easy to replace and costs ~$60-75.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by steffenk

bnaylor's pic should be exactly what you need.

I also borrowed this from pigsnzen's Jan 2004 post:
Take off the decorative cover on the engine. A black fuel rail shaped like a "U" will be on the top of the engine. On the back side of the engine, near the brake master cylinder, is the fuel pressure regulator - at one end of the "U".

Caution and be careful using old posts that are not applicable to the respective engine. The picture is worth a thousand words. The fuel pressure regulator as shown in the pic is located at the front left side of the engine (odd bank fuel injector rail) on a Series II 3800 and not by the brake master cylinder.

[prsoto21]

When I replaced my FPR, I broke the vacuum hose and bought a new assembly at the dealer. It was pretty straight forward by pulling of the bulky black knob that looks like a headphone jack to the right and then pluging in the connector at the other end. Is there special installing instructions? Come to think of it after that the car started harder and cranking harder more frequently. I am wondering if maybe I installed it wrong, or something is wrong with that part. What should I do? I did take it to the dealer and they said the FPR checked out fine and blame my hard start issue on a faulty fuel pump. But I dont want to pay into an expensive job.

Just like Sick & Tired. This for me really only happens in the heat. Morning or night the car starts much better probably 85% on first try. Coming out of work at 4:00 pm it starts very hard and funny to see all the faces in the parking lot staring

Also, if the Service Engine Light is on, does it automatically fail inspection in NY State until fixed? I have till October what are my options? Dealer says the fuel pump is tripping the SES light, but I dont want to pay in.

Lastly, I am running Bosch Platinum II plugs with 28,000 miles on them. I have heard people say they dont do well w/ GM. I may replace with ACDELCO. What dp you think?

[sick and tired]

prsoto21 my car is now in with a specialist and he feels that he can solve the problem. I know he has replaced one thing but that didn't solve the problem but he is pretty sure he can fix it. I will keep you posted and let you know what it ends up being.

[prsoto21]

Thank You!