b20 vs. b16

[h82lose]

My friend and I were talking about honda's tonight and we got on the discussion of which is the better engine in a hatch, a b20b or a b16a2. He sides on the b20 because there " is no replacement for displacement" but I kinda side on the b16 because of the hp and vtec. A b16a2 has 160 hp and 111 torque and a b20b has 140 hp and 133 torque ( i believe). Oh and we didn't even discuss crvtec or turbo's or anything he just wanted to keep on bolt ons like i/h/e. Whats your opinion?

[Predator]

IMHO the B16 wins against the B20 under stock conditions although the B20 has a higher torque!

Thats the old discussion- tq vs. hp, there are several articles about this problem and in every hp wins!

[VTiracer]

I thought the B16a2 is rated at 160bhp (or 170 depending on what rev) and 150 lb/ft torque...

This of course pertains to Euro versions running on 95 Octane
J.

[h82lose]

Wow if a honda engine ever had 170 hp and a 150 torque there would be no question on which is better. Yeah though I told him that hp wins in the long run. Otherwise why would the engine be more expensive (but wait isn't a b16a2 longblock cheaper then a b20b longblock ?) plus the whole point to hondas is Vtec. If a person was into turbos then a nissian is the way to go ( which is what he is into). I guess you could just compare the arguement to the old b16 vs. b18 huh.:smoka:

[Rice-Rocketeer]

Sorry, I side with the B20. But it really depends on what you want to use this engine for. For everyday driving, I'd take the B20 hands down. What's the use of 160 if it's located at 7000 rpm? The B20 will give 130lb/ft of torque at 3000 rpm, the part of the rev range you use everytime you press the gas.

[Moppie]

Well owning the b16a, I have to say that altough full power comes in at 7,800rpm, and peak torque of 111ft/lbs at 7,000rpm there is a full 100ft/lb avliable from an amazingly low 3,000rpm, it its a totaly smoth curve all the way to peak.
Which means you get a range of over 5,000rpm of even, usefull and in a light weight Civic hard pulling Torque.(its usefull from 2,500rpm-8,200rpm) Thats accross a power range greater than some engines redlines, and certianly over a much wider range than a non-VTEC B20.

Ok, the B20 has more Torque, but in a light weight car like a Civic you really dont need it, and the B16a has more than enough at low revs to get it around in traffic. Then when you feel like going fast there is signifcantly more hp that a b20.
Quite simply the B16a is a nice easy engine to drive around town in everyday traffic, and then has more than enough hp to make things lots of fun when you want to go hard.

[Predator]

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Sorry, I side with the B20. But it really depends on what you want to use this engine for. For everyday driving, I'd take the B20 hands down. What's the use of 160 if it's located at 7000 rpm? The B20 will give 130lb/ft of torque at 3000 rpm, the part of the rev range you use everytime you press the gas.

Exactly thats the point why most of the car industrie trries to give the car much torque on low rpms- u just dont need to rev up high and the change the gear.
And ull save fuel due to the lower rpms.

[Rice-Rocketeer]

Originally posted by Moppie
Ok, the B20 has more Torque, but in a light weight car like a Civic you really dont need it, and the B16a has more than enough at low revs to get it around in traffic. Then when you feel like going fast there is signifcantly more hp that a b20.

I really don't know how to put this as to not offend you but that has to be one of the stupidest statments I've heard.

Horsepower sell cars, torque wins races. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you've never driven anything other than your car. If you don't think you need torque, jump in a Corvette and tell me torque isn't a nice thing. Doesn't matter what you drive, you need torque.

Another thing you have to understand is that most of use aren't driving around a 4th gen. The 5th and 6th gens can get significantly heavier than a 4th gen especially with a system a few friends in it. And I've heard so many times from ppl who swap in B16's thinking that's thier only option, "Ehh, it's nice but I expected more". They expected torque. They expected to mash down on the pedal and to be thrown back in thier seats. A B16 in a 2600lb civic with some extras is definitly not going to do that. A lightly modded B20 can do that for you. And an H22 well...you get my point

But what I love about it most is the versatility. Swap in a B16 head and you'll have the best of both worlds.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


I really don't know how to put this as to not offend you but that has to be one of the stupidest statments I've heard.

Horsepower sell cars, torque wins races. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you've never driven anything other than your car. If you don't think you need torque, jump in a Corvette and tell me torque isn't a nice thing. Doesn't matter what you drive, you need torque.
.

ok, I happen to drive a truck for a living, so believe me, I know a thing or two about torque.

And I think Iv probobly driven a lot more cars than you have.
Everything from a 180hp 1600cc Ford Escort rally car, to a 5L 928 porsche, and a 6L Turbo Diesel Mitsi Fighter. (19tons and a turbo the size of your head!!)

Anyway torque is like HP, its totaly useless on its own. You need both at the same time to make a good engine, and you need both avliable over the largest rev range possible. Its not about peak numbers, but area under the curve.
And if you reread what I wrote you'll see why the B16a is a better engine.
Quite simply although it has less total peak torque, the torque it does have is avliable over a much larger rev range than in the B20. i.e it has more area under the curve.
Which makes it a lot more useable, and the car a lot more driveable.
And if you get a B16a2 from an EG or EK japanese Civic then its even better than the torque curve in my car. The EG and EK SiR/VTi-R's are also only a fraction slower than my car, despite the extra few 100kgs thanks to the extra few hp and torque numbers, and better ECU and cams etc to make a flatter more useable torque curve.

And on top of that, the B16a will make a lot more hp with less work than a B20 will.
Its Honda's performance engine, while the B20 is the 4wd shopping cart engine.

[pric]

My friend and I were talking about honda's tonight and we got on the discussion of which is the better engine in a hatch, a b20b or a b16a2. He sides on the b20 because there " is no replacement for displacement" but I kinda side on the b16 because of the hp and vtec. A b16a2 has 160 hp and 111 torque and a b20b has 140 hp and 133 torque ( i believe). Oh and we didn't even discuss crvtec or turbo's or anything he just wanted to keep on bolt ons like i/h/e. Whats your opinion?

The B20B in the 97-98 crv only makes 126 hp @ 5400 rpm & 122 ft/lbs. @ 4300 rpm

The B20Z in the 99-01 crv makes 146 hp @ 6200 rpm & 133 ft/lbs. @ 4500 rpm.

[Predator]

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer

Horsepower sell cars, torque wins races.

No!

High torque in HIGH rpms wins races.
Just a fact, nothing to discuss.

[h82lose]

Okay I've reading about this and here is what I have learned from this site:http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=224829. The guy has a b20 dyno sheet on there and shows you what he is getting 137.4 hp and 126.8 torque which he rounds up to be about 160 hp and 150 tq ( I think 160 hp is reasonable but I think its more like 140 torque ) and he pulls a 14.4 in the 1/4 mile. From what I've read the intake manifold on the b20 is a p.o.s. If you put a skunk2 or type r im your set. The b20z is the same as the JDM b20b and the USDM b20b is left in the dust. Moppie is right about curvage too. Too many times I myself have looked at peak hp and torque but what about the rest of the time? The b20 starts early like at 2,000 and from then on you can feel a difference. The b16a2 is better then a b16a1 because of the better curve but they do feel somewhat underpowered in a 96-00 coupe. The hatch feels much better with a b16a2. Its all about power to weight. Also the transmission has a lot to do with how a b20 feels. The ls with its taller gearing feels slower then a gsr tranny. I like both engines since in a b20 equipped civic you feel fast and in a b16 civic you feel and sound fast ( it just takes a little longer to feel that way). Oh by the way the word around is that the b20's are getting scarce on the internet better act quickly.

[liquid8]

i heard that the b16 in a hatch is around 14.9 in the quarter. how fast would the b20 be in the quarter?

[h82lose]

What kind of hatch are you talking about? EG or EK? In my previous post there is a link that shows you another forum about this topic. The guy there said he ran a 14.4 in a straight b20z with some mods. Check it out.

[liquid8]

what would the big b20 do to your handling? i heard that the h22 messes up your handling and jumping from 1.6 to 2.0 is a big jump