*Stricly for the Pro's and turbo and s/c owners*

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

im getting very confused. i understand thier are alot of things to do to maintain a tubo setup but is it that fustrating? i have a b18c1 and i was thinking us going FI.

now the thing is i want to squeze out 300 ponnies to the ground. i was looking at the JRSC and it said somthing about it raising your bhp by 40% with a #6 blower. i dont have any dyno's (which i should really be doing soon) but i am i/h/e with cams. but they say that the JRSC's work best with stock cam gears (so get ready to see i sell soon) . so im thinking that i will have probably have 270 fwhp with the i/e, but if i want to upgrade the blower to #8 i should be somewhere around my target ,but would that really hurt my engine?

now if i go turbo i would go with the F-Max,and i'll be able to get over 300 without that much of a problem for the track and for close street races right?

and if im not misinformed (correct me if i am) a stock b18c1 can handle up to 10 psi stock. and for every psi is 10 hp at the crank. if i go turbo i would get JE 9:1 compression pistons and crower rods, and the i/e manifolds ported. how much psi would that allow me turn run safely at the track? and a question for turbo owners, how often must u go in for a tune-up?

if i do go turbo i would run 6 psi daily and 10+ for track. i know the superchager would be more daily-driver friendly but would a turbo b18c1 be as much reliable? and how much money is spent in a year maintaining turbo setup's? sorry if these q's has been asked alot of times but i hardly come to the FI forum and i did do a search but didnt find alot of info

so thanx in Advance HONDA fam-bam

[GSteg]

depending on the tuning, there are lots of stock internal B18C1 running 10+psi and also lots of B18C5 running 11+psi. the turbo setup is reliable as long as you get the right upgrades and tuning. 6lbs of boost for the JRSC is decent. upgrade it to 8lbs and you should get close to your designated 300whp. of course you would need bigger injectors, some kind of aftermarket ignition upgrade, and bigger fuel pump.

as far as how much psi you can run safely at the track, there is no telling. st00pid over on SHO.com currently runs 20psi on his stock block B18B1 engine. it goes to show that the better you're good at tuning, the more boost it will handle.

[boosted331]

Only thing about the JRSC is the blower might not flow enough air to be efficient at 300 HP. By FWHP do you mean front wheel horsepower, or flywheel horsepower?

[Polygon]

There isn't a great deal in maintaining a turbo. If you are going to use a turbo here are some simple tips to keep it at its best.

1. Use ONLY 91 octane or higher. If you don't you will get detonation and it will ruin the pistons.

2. Use synthetic oil; it lubricates the bearings better than conventional oil and it helps dissipate heat better.

3. ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS let the car idle for about 30 seconds or so before you shut off the car and if you have been driving it pretty hard let it cool for at least a minuet or two. The reason for this is it allows the turbo to cool and for the oil to drain out. The leading cause for turbo malfunctions and breakage is not letting the turbo cool. If you don't what happens is that oil builds up around the bearings and cooks or boils there, it in turn attracts dirt, metal, and anything else going though the system and forms a type of gunk on the bearings. This eats them away and causes the turbo to hesitate and the impeller to stick. The turbo would need to be replaced or rebuilt at that point.

These are a few things that I have done to maintain my turbo and car and the car has a little over 150,000 miles and I am still running the original turbo.

Now as for your car, I don't know too much about that motor, but I would say that you wouldn't be safe running 10 PSI. The most I would run is 4-6PSI on an engine with no reinforcement. You will want a lower compression ratio as well, more like between 8.5:1 and 8:1. You risk cracking the head with a 9:1 compression ratio. To run 10PSI you are talking about a lot of money, here are some general things that need to be done to add a turbo to an N/A car.

1. The entire intake and exhaust will have to be replaced since the turbo runs off the exhaust.

2. The engine will need reinforcement. You will need to replace the crank, pistons, rods, and possibly your head and sleeves.

3. Depending you may need to replace some or all of your fuel delivery components to handle the demand.

4. You will have to change the compression ratio.

5. You will have to get a boost controller and a fuel/air regulator to keep the car from running lean or rich if you are going to be changing boost levels. A'pexi has some excellent components for this.

I may have forgotten some things, but I am sure someone will add them. As for daily drivability I think the turbo is by far better. Unless you are mashing the gas the turbo isn't really being used, under normal acceleration the turbo might boost 1-2PSI. This helps you have descent gas mileage. The supercharger will always be boosting when you push the gas since it is belt driving you will take a big hit in gas mileage. On an average I get 330-340 miles per tank and I have a 12 gallon tank and I am running between 12-14PSI. Personally, I think the turbo is the better option.

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

thanx! but what's the price range u spend on maintance a year? from the sound of things i think i might go s/c because i dont have up the ass money right now. or does anyone now which would be cheaper in the long run?

polygon- i heard that s/c are by far more reliable than turbo's, i dunno know. im just kinda dumb founded when it comes to FI

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

Originally posted by boosted331
Only thing about the JRSC is the blower might not flow enough air to be efficient at 300 HP. By FWHP do you mean front wheel horsepower, or flywheel horsepower?

i meant front wheel. are u saying that the blower won't flow enough air to be efficient at 300 hp with a #6? because that's y i said i would go with #8

[Polygon]

Originally posted by TrAnCeD_RaCeR
thanx! but what's the price range u spend on maintance a year? from the sound of things i think i might go s/c because i dont have up the ass money right now. or does anyone now which would be cheaper in the long run?

polygon- i heard that s/c are by far more reliable than turbo's, i dunno know. im just kinda dumb founded when it comes to FI

Well, the costs to maintain a turbo every year are no more than a superchager. All you have to do is what I listed above and your turbo will last you a very long time. People that bitch about turbos and their reliablitlity are the people that don't let the damn thing cool down before shutting off the car. Turbos are very reliable as long as you let them cool and let the oil get out before you shut it down and it will last you 150,000+ miles. I have a bet going on how long mine will last.

I still say go with the turbo, you get better gas mileage and more power.

[GSteg]

also, superchargers don't always give you the instant power you need, like the centrifugal type supercharger (ie. vortech). in this case, the JRSC gives you the power increase from idle to redline.

as for the letting the car idle for 30 second, i think it's better to buy a turbo timer. hey, at least you save some gas

i don't think replacing the crank is necessary since it is already forged from the factory. what needs to be replaced is the piston and rods if you're going to boost over 15psi. but with good tuning, you shouldn't have to replace the pistons and rods yet.

i always like to steer people away from the "lowering compression" myth. lowering the compression just makes more room for errors (detonation). having a higher compression piston will benefit by quicker turbo spool-ups, and more efficient in power making. i don't really want to get into the static compression efficiency right now. if anyone wants to, go look around somewhere and you should see my arguement on CR

nice info polygon. keep up the good work

[Polygon]

[quote]Originally posted by GSteg
as for the letting the car idle for 30 second, i think it's better to buy a turbo timer. hey, at least you save some gas

Hehe, yeah, too bad I am too cheap to do that.

i don't think replacing the crank is necessary since it is already forged from the factory. what needs to be replaced is the piston and rods if you're going to boost over 15psi. but with good tuning, you shouldn't have to replace the pistons and rods yet.

Interesting, I didn't know that the crank was already forged. In that case you would be able to get away with about 10PSI. Like I said though, I don't crap about that engine. hehe

i always like to steer people away from the "lowering compression" myth. lowering the compression just makes more room for errors (detonation). having a higher compression piston will benefit by quicker turbo spool-ups, and more efficient in power making. i don't really want to get into the static compression efficiency right now. if anyone wants to, go look around somewhere and you should see my arguement on CR

I have seen too many people crack heads and blocks because they didn't lower the compression. I mean a lot of cars these days are between 9:1 - 11.5:1. Honestly 9:1 is the highest I would go. At higher CRs you risk cracking the head among other things. Detonation is a problem at lower CR, yes, that is why I use only 91 octane. You will see the difference with a turbo engine besides. I guess to each his own.

nice info polygon. keep up the good work

Thanks!

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

Hey good info Polygon. u to GSteg.

i don't think replacing the crank is necessary since it is already forged from the factory. what needs to be replaced is the piston and rods if you're going to boost over 15psi. but with good tuning, you shouldn't have to replace the pistons and rods yet.

when u say replace pistons do u mean with a lower compression? and someone told me that when u get lower copression pistons u have to resleeve something? was he misinformed?

alright i think i got it let's go over this one more time tips for maintaining turbo:



1. have car tuned often. (how often?)

2. let engine idle for about 30 before cutting off. (does the turbo timer do this for u when u cut off ur car?)

3. im not to sure if im going to lower compression,but i am going to get some rods (GSteg im holding u responsible since you know my engine better )

4. Use 91 octane or better (DUH!)

5. Air/Fuel gauge etc.

if there's anything i leaving out let me know thanx again u 2. i might have found a new home

[GSteg]

u will have to resleeve the engine ONLY if you're boring your engine out by a few millimeter. it is not necessary when you're lowering the compression. with the lower compression, you make less power than a higher compression engine. here is what i wrote in another thread comparing a low compression B20 and a high compression B20:

B20B has the lower compression. the B20Z has the 9.6:1 compression. having a lower compression means you can boost more, but it won't gain more power as a higher compression engine. u can boost 13psi on a B18B2 engine and you would have the same gain as a B18C1 with 10psi. its called the static compression, which is the overall giver of how much power you will make. the effectiveness of a compression ratio tells how effective the engine is produces power with the given variable.

B20Z with 6psi:
6psi/14.7psi=.408
.408+1=1.408
1.408(9.6 CR)=13.5 of effective compression ratio.

B20B with 8si:
8pi/14.7psi=.544
.544+1=1.544
1.544(8.5 CR)=13.12 of effective compression ratio.

as you can see, a B20Z with 6psi will gain more power than a B20B with 8psi. it would take 9psi for the B20B engine to BARELY edge out the B20Z in power gain.

just like in N/A cars, you gain more power when you have higher compression pistons. just think of the high compression piston putting out 10cfm of air, and the low compression piston putting out 5cfm. if you add a 10cfm turbo to the high compression piston, you would total it out to be 20cfm. now to get the 5cfm to 20cfm, you would have to add a 15cfm turbo just to gain as much as the high compression piston.
lower compression gives you more headroom in making error (detonation), but higher compression gives you more headroom in gaining power.

9:1 isn't that high. if you ask all the pro's around the world, they will too agree that lower compression isn't always better. with a higher compression piston, u will have to boost less to gain power, and wear out your turbocharger less because it doesn't have to spin fast. i'm not saying that you should definietly go with 9:1 pistons, but if you do, run LOW boost just to get the hang of what you're doing. i have school now, if you need anything, i'll be back

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

Originally posted by GSteg
u will have to resleeve the engine ONLY if you're boring your engine out by a few millimeter. it is not necessary when you're lowering the compression. with the lower compression, you make less power than a higher compression engine. here is what i wrote in another thread comparing a low compression B20 and a high compression B20:



9:1 isn't that high. if you ask all the pro's around the world, they will too agree that lower compression isn't always better. with a higher compression piston, u will have to boost less to gain power, and wear out your turbocharger less because it doesn't have to spin fast. i'm not saying that you should definietly go with 9:1 pistons, but if you do, run LOW boost just to get the hang of what you're doing. i have school now, if you need anything, i'll be back

LOL! it's koo well im most def going with turbo. i think i'll take a chance with the same compression, but should i get the same compression pistons or leave the stocks in? and i will be getting some rods probably crower well this is my plan im going in the right direction aren't i?

[GSteg]

Originally posted by TrAnCeD_RaCeR


LOL! it's koo well im most def going with turbo. i think i'll take a chance with the same compression, but should i get the same compression pistons or leave the stocks in? and i will be getting some rods probably crower well this is my plan im going in the right direction aren't i?

st00pid over on SHO ran 15psi of turbo boost on his stock B18C1 engine before reinforcing his engine to run 24psi. you should email him at [email protected] i think he was running 9:1 JE pistons too. somewhere in the 9 range...

he knows his stuff and is currently running 20psi on his STOCK LS engine with the only engine modification is the blockguard. he'll answer all your questionss.

it never hurts to upgrade your internal components, but with good tuning, you won't have to yet. you can either spend ~$800 on pistons and rods or ~$800 on a standalone engine management system, which will help you boost higher with stock internals and run your car safely. if you plan to get the standalone system, i highly recommend going with Hondata, as they are the best to work with on Honda. st00pid will even help you on using it, since he has a hondata 4b system.

[TrAnCeD_RaCeR]

Originally posted by GSteg


st00pid over on SHO ran 15psi of turbo boost on his stock B18C1 engine before reinforcing his engine to run 24psi. you should email him at [email protected] i think he was running 9:1 JE pistons too. somewhere in the 9 range...

he knows his stuff and is currently running 20psi on his STOCK LS engine with the only engine modification is the blockguard. he'll answer all your questionss.

it never hurts to upgrade your internal components, but with good tuning, you won't have to yet. you can either spend ~$800 on pistons and rods or ~$800 on a standalone engine management system, which will help you boost higher with stock internals and run your car safely. if you plan to get the standalone system, i highly recommend going with Hondata, as they are the best to work with on Honda. st00pid will even help you on using it, since he has a hondata 4b system.

hey thanx! i will e-mail him btw yeah it's probably best to go with the stadalone, i know to go with hondata because i heard nothing but outstanding things about them. hey take care ur care to dude......:smoker2:

[GSteg]

Originally posted by TrAnCeD_RaCeR


hey take care ur care to dude......:smoker2:

huh? if you're asking me to take care of my car, sorry..i don't have one yet. i'm a 14 year old guy sitting on the computer (suprising isn't it?)