question for the pro's,experts if u will!

[ss1]

ok so i have a d16 motor ,and a lot of cash and i have no problemo with forced induction. so heres wat iam planin to do
d16 motor
forged pistons,rods and all other racing block parts
turbocharger(which company makes the best kit?)
turbo clucth (which brand?)
electronics(whcih ecu and wat other electronic stuff ,i wanna get every hosrse out of it )
fuel system

other NA thing exhaust and intake etc r included dont worry!

ok so now u know my plane ,after getting the internals done how much boost can i go for ?
and wat r the other things which will need replacement other then mentioned obove at high boost pressures,

apart from the clucth any pther thing for the drivetrain?
.oh and if u know any link on step by step d16 performance upgrade guide please tell . thanks in advance man .

[93hybridaccord]

Originally Posted by ss1

ok so i have a d16 motor ,and a lot of cash and i have no problemo with forced induction. so heres wat iam planin to do
d16 motor
forged pistons,rods and all other racing block parts
turbocharger(which company makes the best kit?)
turbo clucth (which brand?)
electronics(whcih ecu and wat other electronic stuff ,i wanna get every hosrse out of it )
fuel system

other NA thing exhaust and intake etc r included dont worry!

ok so now u know my plane ,after getting the internals done how much boost can i go for ?
and wat r the other things which will need replacement other then mentioned obove at high boost pressures,

apart from the clucth any pther thing for the drivetrain?
.oh and if u know any link on step by step d16 performance upgrade guide please tell . thanks in advance man .

I'm gonna tell you the same thing a lot of other people are gonna tell you. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO AND WHAT HP YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE.

turbocharger(which company makes the best kit?) - don't buy a kit, you won't make as much hp as you sound like you want.

turbo clucth (which brand?) - There are many to choose from, ACT, centerforce, etc., pick whichever you think will work best for the price.

electronics(whcih ecu and wat other electronic stuff ,i wanna get every hosrse out of it ) - There are many to choose from depending on how much money you have to spend. Anywhere from a couple hundred to a couple thousand and up.

fuel system - I'm not sure what this means, are you talking about fuel pumps, regulators, injectors or what?

As far as how much boost can you run, it all depends on what internals you get.
What else will need replaced? Depending on how much hp we are talking, axles will need to be done. Looking at anywhere from a couple hundred to over a grand. Also, when you say clutch, you mean pressure plate and clutch right, cause no way a stock pp will hold up.

The best thing to do is go to a local shop, one that does a lot of turbo applications, preferably with experience in imports and talk to them. They will be able to help you a lot better than someone on a forum. You'll be able to ask them questions right then and not have to wait for a reply. You don't have to buy anything from them, but at least get the info you are looking for.

[ss1]

from where iam there aint no import shops ,i am gona import all the parts .!.....
now i have some knowledge abt what iam doin but only readin knowledge ,never done a car to this extent b4 .so i was lookin for say a guide so that i dont end up spendin my money on buyin the wrong stuff or may be overlooking some parts of the engine which needs upgrading thus later cozing the motor to die.
i want abt 300 hp from the d16.say if i have abt 4.5 thousand $ what should i do
.here is what i know
internals(block parts only)
head ported and polished with valves and springs upgraded
turbocharger?(u said no kit? custom made and whcih is the best turbo for abt 300 hp with least amount of lag)
clucth plate and presure plates (yea mean both
QUESTIONS
wat type of ecu upgrade will i need?
and with fuel system i mean every thing neccesary to supply enough fuel for a 300hp system (u will tell me on wat boost this is achievable)
thats abt it ??????????? anything i missed ?

[93hybridaccord]

Actually, for that much hp, you could buy a kit. http://www.turbo-kits.com/civic_turbo_kits.html has a large selection. I just did a search online for turbo kits and this is the first site I saw. Look down toward the bottom. Get something like the drag kit. It's 3k and you'll still have enough left to get internals and clutch and pressure plate. As far as port and polishing, I don't think it would be necessary yet. You'll notice that that kit comes with basically all the fuel management you'll need. Hope this helps.

[ss1]

hmm yea that helped man.two more questions though
wat abt the ecu (price and all u know that can help)
on the drag kit it says 7 psi.is it the max putput or could it be cranked up,if it could how much atleast can i crank it up after changing internals ,need for the 300 hp mark!

[93hybridaccord]

Originally Posted by ss1

hmm yea that helped man.two more questions though
wat abt the ecu (price and all u know that can help)
on the drag kit it says 7 psi.is it the max putput or could it be cranked up,if it could how much atleast can i crank it up after changing internals ,need for the 300 hp mark!

7psi is what is recommended for the stock engine. That turbo can go well past 7psi. If you'll notice, that turbo can support up to about 450hp. As far as ecu, you don't need to do anything, but a s-afc would help out. You could also go with a piggyback like the greddy e-manage.
As far as psi, with forged internals I would imagine 15psi or so will get you that. I'm not positive, maybe someone who has more experience with the d16 would know, but I'm pretty sure at that pressure you'll need to get the block sleeved. If you have an open deck, go with darton, if not, crower will work. I don't have a lot of experience with the d or b block, but turbocharging is turbocharging so someone else who has more experience will be able to help you with specifics.

[eckoman_pdx]

If you are wanting to go the Forced Induction route, don't mess around with a piggyback like the greddy e-manage (it's pre-progamed, first of all) or the s-afc, espiecally at the boost levels you are going to have to run to attain 300WHP. If you are looking for an ecu for FI...get a Hondata...period. To keep it short, it's basically a stand-alone. They are well worth the money. If you are serious about 300hp and boost, get a Hondata ecu. There are other stand alones out there, and some are very good, but for the money and price, you won't beat Hondata, and they are very good. For a quick run down of what a Hondata is, check out the last issue of Import Tuner (March 2004 I believem it's on the shelves until 2/24/04). As far as re-sleeving, all honda's come with an open deck stock. That being said, I perfer AEBS sleeves over Darton sleeves, I recommend AEBS. They make the top sleeves around for hondas, IMO. If you are looking for 300hp out of a D-series motor, that will take something in the range of 20psi (there is more to HP with FI than just psi, this is a rough off the top of my head estimate). Basically, at the boost levels you'll have to run to achive your HP goal, you'll need a fully built motor. I.E, re-sleeved (your stock sleeves will wobble under all that boost, and this will cause the cylinder walls to crack), good low compression ratio pistons (9.0:1 or so) like aries or weisco, good rods like Crower 4340 Billet connecting rods, vavles, springs, retainers, etc. A proper fuel managment system is important, with FI....a Hondata ECU will help take care of that and other issues with boost as well. As far as Turbo's go, check out Garrett, their GT series is good. If you are willing to sheel out the money, check out the Garrett Disco Potato turbo (it's finally available at long last!!!) It's well worth the money.

[ss1]

ok so do i really need an ecu??????????????????/
i mean as that guy said u "u dont realy need one"
so if iam gettin a turbo kit with all the stuff like injectors and regulator etc will i need an upgraded ecu for em .or wat benifit will i get from an ecu

[93weed_eater]

you might wanna go with a custom kit for the money you have. a kit will run at or above $3k internals aren't cheap and don't forget labor to have the engine done too. not only that but you'll get what you what with a custom kit. it'll help if you can do the work yourself or if you have some good friends that can. if it were me i would concentrate on the kit and management the save again to redo the engine. just run it at lower boost, mainly cause the management won't be cheap when you add in haveing someone tune it for you and dyno time. best of luck man hope it works out and let us know.

[93hybridaccord]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

If you are wanting to go the Forced Induction route, don't mess around with a piggyback like the greddy e-manage (it's pre-progamed, first of all) or the s-afc, espiecally at the boost levels you are going to have to run to attain 300WHP. If you are looking for an ecu for FI...get a Hondata...period. To keep it short, it's basically a stand-alone. They are well worth the money. If you are serious about 300hp and boost, get a Hondata ecu. There are other stand alones out there, and some are very good, but for the money and price, you won't beat Hondata, and they are very good. For a quick run down of what a Hondata is, check out the last issue of Import Tuner (March 2004 I believem it's on the shelves until 2/24/04). As far as re-sleeving, all honda's come with an open deck stock. That being said, I perfer AEBS sleeves over Darton sleeves, I recommend AEBS. They make the top sleeves around for hondas, IMO. If you are looking for 300hp out of a D-series motor, that will take something in the range of 20psi (there is more to HP with FI than just psi, this is a rough off the top of my head estimate). Basically, at the boost levels you'll have to run to achive your HP goal, you'll need a fully built motor. I.E, re-sleeved (your stock sleeves will wobble under all that boost, and this will cause the cylinder walls to crack), good low compression ratio pistons (9.0:1 or so) like aries or weisco, good rods like Crower 4340 Billet connecting rods, vavles, springs, retainers, etc. A proper fuel managment system is important, with FI....a Hondata ECU will help take care of that and other issues with boost as well. As far as Turbo's go, check out Garrett, their GT series is good. If you are willing to sheel out the money, check out the Garrett Disco Potato turbo (it's finally available at long last!!!) It's well worth the money.

Dude, what are you talking about. First off, e-manage does come with a map, but you can make your own fuel maps also. As far as the s-afc, it works for it's intended purpose. Hondata does make a good ecu, but I would much rather go with the AEM EMS or something like that, but I doubt he has 1,500 to spend on a standalone. As far as all Honda decks have an open deck, I'm sorry but you are wrong, if you'd like a pic of my block I'm sure I can e-mail it to you. As far as sleeves, the new darton sleeves with the MDI are rated very high. As far as the best sleeves for a Honda, I'd have to go with Golden Eagle and I'm sure many would back me up. As far as the turbo system itself, this guy doesn't have a lot of money to spend as he has said. If he went with the kit I showed him or one of the same kind, he'll be able to make the hp he is looking for without having to piece it together. Basically, with that kit alone and a built block and head work, he could make 300whp.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by 93hybridaccord

Dude, what are you talking about. First off, e-manage does come with a map, but you can make your own fuel maps also. As far as the s-afc, it works for it's intended purpose. Hondata does make a good ecu, but I would much rather go with the AEM EMS or something like that, but I doubt he has 1,500 to spend on a standalone. As far as all Honda decks have an open deck, I'm sorry but you are wrong, if you'd like a pic of my block I'm sure I can e-mail it to you. As far as sleeves, the new darton sleeves with the MDI are rated very high. As far as the best sleeves for a Honda, I'd have to go with Golden Eagle and I'm sure many would back me up. As far as the turbo system itself, this guy doesn't have a lot of money to spend as he has said. If he went with the kit I showed him or one of the same kind, he'll be able to make the hp he is looking for without having to piece it together. Basically, with that kit alone and a built block and head work, he could make 300whp.

Okay JACKASS..not this again...Honda's have an Open deck design...excuse me, the older H22 is said to have a closed deck, but the crank journels make this motor a bad choice for high power...If you are talking about any motor than a certain 95 and earlier H22, you are full of it. Also, ALL D-series, ZC, F-series, K-series and B-series Honda motors have an open deck. As I said, 95 and earlier H22 is said to have a closed deck (Honda Tuning said this years ago) though I don't give a crap, the cylinder walls are still to thin to handle much boost, and the crank journals are not well designed for High power. Secondly, a Hondata is A LOT LESS than an AEM EMS...and any person I know would go for that any day.

3rd, a Hondata will be a lot better for a high boost app than a greddy e-manage. Ask Whttteg, ask any other knowlegable AF memeber and they will tell you. If you think he's going to reliabley run 20psi on a s-afc or a greddy e-manage, you are smoking crack. He'll want more than that at that boost level. The Kit can make 300HP, but the STOCK INTERNALS CAN'T HANDLE THAT MUCH BOOST!!!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT CONCEPT?? NO 127HP D-SERIES MOTOR CAN HANDLE 300HP ON STOCK INTERNALS.

As far as sleeves, don't you go around knocking AEBS...I never said Darton was bad or GE was bad, I said, IMO, AEBS is best. Sport Compact car refered to them as the best sleeves on the market...Darton Uses a rubber seal to seal the sleeves, rubber gets brittle and ditrioartes over time...golden eagle uses a sealent, and their 1st sealent had leaking issues, they will tell you that. They claim their new sealent is good and doesn't have this problem...however, they will not tell me what the new sealent is. I don't play that game, I want to knowe exactly what I am paying for. AEBS uses a 2000interference fit on their sleeves. Basically, this fits the sleeves 3 inchs into the block. The interfenrence fit is very tight and seals it up, locklite it added as protection, though the interference fit is enough. Too tight or too loose and it will crack or not seal enough. That's why I said let them handle it. I'll go with AEBS, now if you want to get GE or Darton, that's fine, it's your motor. I'll stick to AEVS, like Jojo Callos used.

Now if you think he can handle 20psi and 300hp out of a D-seires motor, you are dead wrong...I don't care what turbo kit you have, the motor will blow. Also. with a car not designed for FI like a Honda, it's always safest to go with a good set-up like Hondata. If you think a Greddy e-manage or s-afc compares to a Hondata, you're dead wrong. Also, why the hell would he want a AEM EMS, for $1500, that's more than he needs to spend, get a Hondata, it's better IMO anyway.

Now, you say "If he went with the kit I showed him or one of the same kind, he'll be able to make the hp he is looking for without having to piece it together. Basically, with that kit alone and a built block and head work, he could make 300whp."

Since when is your kit and what you show him the ONLY WAY to make power. You know, as well as I, that kit is not the only one that will make power...hell, even one with a different turbo and brand could. Any expert will tell you anyways, it's always better to put your own kit together than to buy a pre-made one. Also, I suggested him the Disco Potato turbo...it's finally availble for sale to the public after years in the wings. The Garrett Disco Potato, techinacally called the Garrett GT28RS, is an absolutly amazing turbo. It was first introduced to the world in Summer 2000 as a prototype, and after years is finally here. This turbo is capable of delivering over 300HP with a quick spool up and shocking responsivness. It's a great turbo for someone building a motor like a honda between 1.6 and 2.2 liters that runs on street gas. That turbo sounds right up his alley, so I suggested it. Like your "kit," it's not the only route, but it is a good one to look at. If he goes the "build your own kit" approach, I'd suggest the GT28RS, better known as the Disco Potato. Check out the March 2004 Issue of Sport Compact Car for more.

Garrett Engine Boosting Systems
(310) 517-1223
www.turbobygarrett.com

Originally Posted by ss1

ok so do i really need an ecu??????????????????/
i mean as that guy said u "u dont realy need one"
so if iam gettin a turbo kit with all the stuff like injectors and regulator etc will i need an upgraded ecu for em .or wat benifit will i get from an ecu

You want to make 300whp, correct. That will take a lot of airflow and upwards of 20psi..;you will need to fully build the motor if you want it to last. Tuning is a MAJOR part of any motor, espeically with a boosted Honda. I know what he said, but if you want a reliable set-up, you'd be wise to invest in a Hondata. If you want more opinons, PM Whtteg, GScivic7, and tran_nsx to name a few. They'll tell you the same. If you boost it to to 300HP with that kit on stock internals like he is saying, you will blow that motor quickly. It's generally a better idea to go with a Hondata, especially when boosting that high. If you go the wrong route with FI on a Honda Motor, I hope you have money for a new motor of a re-build.

[93hybridaccord]

Wow, someone seems a little touchy. You didn't read my post very well did you. If you look at the last line, I said with that kit and a built block and head work he could get 300whp.

As far as the older h22 not making power, you are wrong. I know personally 2 closed deck h22's that are making serious power and mine will be the third that I know personally. One is over 700whp and the other is at 562whp with the stock sleeves. As far as the cylinder walls being thin, that's what a sleeve helps out with. Just cause you hang around on a forum doesn't make you the god of engine building or boosting.

Personally I don't think it would take 20psi to make around 300whp, then again, who am I, I'm not one of you forum gods. The e-manage will work for up to 15psi, past that and you are correct, it will not handle it. There are many other piggyback systems or standalones on the market. Not one time did I say Hondata wouldn't work, but I was just trying to give alternatives. Like I said, the s-afc works for it's intended purpose, I didn't say it would be as good as any of the other fuel management systems we have discussed.

Next time, calm down and read through the post.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by 93hybridaccord

Wow, someone seems a little touchy. You didn't read my post very well did you. If you look at the last line, I said with that kit and a built block and head work he could get 300whp.

As far as the older h22 not making power, you are wrong. I know personally 2 closed deck h22's that are making serious power and mine will be the third that I know personally. One is over 700whp and the other is at 562whp with the stock sleeves. As far as the cylinder walls being thin, that's what a sleeve helps out with. Just cause you hang around on a forum doesn't make you the god of engine building or boosting.

Personally I don't think it would take 20psi to make around 300whp, then again, who am I, I'm not one of you forum gods. The e-manage will work for up to 15psi, past that and you are correct, it will not handle it. There are many other piggyback systems or standalones on the market. Not one time did I say Hondata wouldn't work, but I was just trying to give alternatives. Like I said, the s-afc works for it's intended purpose, I didn't say it would be as good as any of the other fuel management systems we have discussed.

Next time, calm down and read through the post.

You know what, maybe you should read my post more carefully. You pick and choose what to type. If you read my post, you'll see I corrected that further down. Don't get snippy with me in the forums to create un-needed drama. Don't go around being an ass. I never said I was an AF god. Also, 15psi will not make 300HP, on average, it's 10 for every pound of boost. If a VTEC D16 makes 127HP @ the flywheel, that's about 110 @ the wheels. It will take more than 15psi to make 300 from 110hp. Do the math. In no way will 15psi on a d16 sohc vtec make 300hp. He will need more than 15psi for sure. That being said, the e-manage and s-afc won't work. Personally, I would just spend the extra $$ for a hondata versus getting an e-mange. A hondata is much more tune-able. We never "discussed" any other "fuel manangment options" like you said. I suggested the Hondata, and you said you wouldn't go with a Hondata, you'd go with an AEM EMS for $1,500, but you don't want to spend that much. You said he shoudl use the e-manage or s-afc. As I said in my first post, AT THE BOOST LEVELS HE WILL HAVE TO RUN TO MAKE 300HP, an s-afc or greddy e-manage will not work. Not enough fuel deilivery, many things. He will need something like a Hondata. Also, the ecu will help take care of the little map sensor problem. If he gets and uses an s-afc, even for a low boost app, a missing link is a good idea. Also, he would be smart to get a turbo timer and boost controller of some sort (no need for anything fancy). If he doesn't get a turbo timer, we all know what that can result in. It's not smart to just shut down a boosted motor after driving. You need to let it cool down before you shut it off, and that's where the turbo timer will help. No matter what type of motor someone builds, they need to be smart and build it right. Cut conrers to save a little money, and it generally costs you more in the long run. If you can't afford to do it right the first time, wait until you can. Don't go getting all snippy and being an ass with those "forum god" comments. I never said nor eluded that I have a big head like that. I just wanted the kid to have some correct info, and that is that an s-afc or e-mange will no work at the boost levels he will need. I see being wrong gets you all worked up. Also, I never said older H22's can't make power, I said their not the best choice for high power apps...any motor can be built to make power. BTW, let's not high-jack the thread about you and your buddies. In no way is a 700hp h22 streetable. 562Hp on stock sleeves won't go a long time on a honda motor, espically with most people. That's not very streetable either. Don't mix that up, just because one person can pull it off doens't mean everyone can. Also don't go and claim I don't know my info just because you are pissed off. If you have a problem with me, drop it from the public forums and take it to pm's, that's what they are for. Don't hi-jack this thread because you have issues, with me or otherwise.