Hesitation and Stuttering while cruising...

[KX2000GTP]

Hey guys, Hopefully I have enough information to post on this...

I have a 2000/GTP 108K. DHP v1, 3.4, and supporting mods(exhaust, plugs, thermo...).

While under a light load or cruising i feel a hesitation from the car. Not quite a mis-fire, more of like a cough i guess. It happens anywhere from 1500-2500 RPM and about 20-50% throttle. It is not a consistent stutter, by this i mean it doesn't do it all the time.

Sometimes it is more pronounced than others. If the car stutters around a shift point then it surges pretty bad, if it stutters around 2K while cruising it isn't as bad.

I scanned the car on a 4 hour drive yesterday. The only codes i have are fan codes b/c of my overide switch. I did notice that sometimes I get upwards of 3* KR while cruising if the car stutters. other than that no KR. I think that when the car stutters, sometimes it is hard enough to make something rattle and cause false knock. Then I thought about the Knock being what's causing the surging, but sometimes the surge doesn't have knock.

The ECT never went above 185*, IAT was 66-73*.

I checked all my vacuum lines and everything seems ok there (A/M boost gauge and the stutters occured around 8psi - 0 psi vac). Checked all the fluids (thinking maybe tranny) but everything was clean and full. Tranny was done about 25K ago, oil about 2K, coolant 40K maybe.

The weirdest thing is, when I cruise at 80-85 mph, the car rides fine...but only that high of speed.

I have not checked plugs yet b/c I haven't had a chance (but I am carrying an extra set + tools JIC )

I really need to figure out what this it, I have to drive my car for work and I put ALOT of miles on it...It really blows!

EDIT: Right after I posted this message I started my car to warm it up. After it warmed up for a few minutes it started making this awful grinding sound while it park. When I shifted out of park, the grinding stopped, back into park it started again...Is this my tranny about to go boom?

EDIT 2: My Tranny Went Boom! nothing in drive, nothing reverse...

[BNaylor]

Hi Jake. Out of curiosity what brand and heat range plugs are you using? Also, are you using the AC Delco 7mm wires?

GM recently put out a TSB concerning a slight "chuggle" effect. It can even be defined as a burp or cough. It says it is not the tranny either like TCC lock/unlock. Dealers cannot detect the problem on a Tech II machine either. The TSB says to check into the throttle position sensor (TPS) if basic tune up items are not the cause. This is more applicable to 2000 and up GTPs.

I had a similar problem a few years back and it turned out that one spark plug had a hairline crack in the ceramic part of the electrode.

Here is the link to the TSB but it covers '97 - '03:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/General-M...4-058/581.html

[KX2000GTP]

But Seriously....My tranny went, the car won't move...Should I buy a new one, or attempt to rebuild myself?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by KX2000GTP

But Seriously....My tranny went, the car won't move...Should I buy a new one, or attempt to rebuild myself?

Sorry, didn't see your edit posts. Sounds bad. I'd get it towed to a decent tranny shop that you trust and see what they say. They can scan it and check pressure. If the estimate is over $2K then you might consider a reman. They are available for around $1K. The ZZP hp tranny runs around $1800 complete with internal mods just to give you an idea.

Hard choice.

[KX2000GTP]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

Hi Jake. Out of curiosity what brand and heat range plugs are you using? Also, are you using the AC Delco 7mm wires?

GM recently put out a TSB concerning a slight "chuggle" effect. It can even be defined as a burp or cough. It says it is not the tranny either like TCC lock/unlock. Dealers cannot detect the problem on a Tech II machine either. The TSB says to check into the throttle position sensor (TPS) if basic tune up items are not the cause. This is more applicable to 2000 and up GTPs.

I had a similar problem a few years back and it turned out that one spark plug had a hairline crack in the ceramic part of the electrode.

Here is the link to the TSB but it covers '97 - '03:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/General-M...4-058/581.html

i'm def. not using the right plugs right now, 103's, I need to put 104's back in I know...

I have the Taylor race wires...

[BNaylor]

I'll refer you to Troy1. He is a good tranny tech with a GT and maybe he can weigh-in. Lots of experience with the 4T65E.

[KX2000GTP]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

Sorry, didn't see your edit posts. Sounds bad. I'd get it towed to a decent tranny shop that you trust and see what they say. They can scan it and check pressure. If the estimate is over $2K then you might consider a reman. They are available for around $1K. The ZZP hp tranny runs around $1800 complete with internal mods just to give you an idea.

Hard choice.

I figured you didn't see it, This all happened in a matter of minutes.

I'm thinking that either way, I am going to upgrade, i need to anyway if I plan to actually mod my car with something other than bolt ons so...ZZP here we come

[KX2000GTP]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

I'll refer you to Troy1. He is a good tranny tech with a GT and maybe he can weigh-in. Lots of experience with the 4T65E.

Thanks Bob!

[ern2112]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

Sorry, didn't see your edit posts. Sounds bad. I'd get it towed to a decent tranny shop that you trust and see what they say. They can scan it and check pressure. If the estimate is over $2K then you might consider a reman. They are available for around $1K. The ZZP hp tranny runs around $1800 complete with internal mods just to give you an idea.

Hard choice.

Bob......how hard of a job is to do an R&R on one of these beasts. I got a quote today of 2400.00 to fix mine. He told me that the solonoid thing is going to be a temp fix because they always have metal shavings in them when they have as many miles as mine has (185 k)Should I just get another one? IS it worth the cash to just buy a ZZP HP tranny? Is it that much better?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by ern2112

Bob......how hard of a job is to do an R&R on one of these beasts. I got a quote today of 2400.00 to fix mine. He told me that the solonoid thing is going to be a temp fix because they always have metal shavings in them when they have as many miles as mine has (185 k)Should I just get another one? IS it worth the cash to just buy a ZZP HP tranny? Is it that much better?

Pretty difficult DIY. Even guys that go to school on them scratch their heads. Just ask Troy1. He is our forum tranny expert and does it for a living. I've removed the side cover for R&R and within our local GP Club have helped others pull the tranny and do a total swap out. Problem with automatic transmissions is they have hundreds of parts that have to be looked at. Even valve body replacement can throw you for a loop especially when all the small ball bearings fall out on you. I have a well known shop manual by ATSG on 4T65E trannies and I would be reluctant to do an R&R myself even with the book. Most hydraulic but mechanical like bands, bearings, gears/sprags and clutch packs are a different story.

$2400 is possible but expensive for a total overhaul. If you checkout EBay and search for "4T65E", there are companies that sell remanufactured ones. Once they get the old one back the core charge will be refunded. So you can get one as low as $895 and shipping round trip will run about $400. Also, you get a warranty. I would recommend the ZZP tranny if you have a modded GT or GTP. I know guys able to take it well into the high 11s on quarter mile ETs with a high degree of reliability versus stock. The ZZP reworked is much better than the 4T65E-HD.

[ern2112]

OK.....well....thats about all I need to hear. If I am gonna bust that kinda cash...I want to get a good solid tranny. Why would I spend 2400 to get the same POS I have now when I can get a bad boy for less?

The guy at the shop said he would do an R&R for 450.00. Is that a decent cost? And to make sure I am on the same page as you....you meant an R&R of the tranny only...not going inside and rebuilding...right?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by ern2112

OK.....well....thats about all I need to hear. If I am gonna bust that kinda cash...I want to get a good solid tranny. Why would I spend 2400 to get the same POS I have now when I can get a bad boy for less?

The guy at the shop said he would do an R&R for 450.00. Is that a decent cost? And to make sure I am on the same page as you....you meant an R&R of the tranny only...not going inside and rebuilding...right?

It could be either but if you mean swapping out the complete tranny for you that is reasonable. Phoenix Retrans who sells on EBay too will swap out for $395.00 if you bring it in person. We went to Phoenix since it is only 450 miles trip one way for us. Total was $895 and $395 for replacement and exchange. Plus an overnighter and a trip to the topless bar. Car was ready the next day. No core charge because we went in person. The 4T65E trannies drop like flies in that part of the country so it makes sense to have a tranny center there.

[ern2112]

LOL.....nice!! Ok...well think I am gonna take him up on the deal.....will start saving my pennies.

By the way......only mods I have now are good plugs and 8mm accel wires. I will mod it after I get the tranny done. I knew better than to mod it before hand.....now, time for the goodies!

Ern

[troy1]

Hey, Dont move anymore huh? that sucks! R&R I think is about 6-8hrs. It would be tough to do on your back in the dirve way. the easiest way would be to pull the engine and tranny as one then seperate them. If you get a rebuild just ask them if the put all new bearing in 4T65E's have some cheap bearings and ofcourse the notroius PCS and 4th clutch shaft.

[KX2000GTP]

Well...I'm thinking about towing my car to ZZP and let them rebuild mine, that way the tranny will match the car and it would be rebuilt by the best. I figured if I have to come off with taht kinda $$$ for the tranny, then since ZZP is going to build it, they should put it in.

Only problem, its' a 12 hour drive from ATL! Gonna figure it out in the next few days here.