Too Many Problems!!!

[Meganski25]

I own a 1992 saturn twin cam Sl2 with about 140k miles. Just recently took the car to saturn because of a chugging problem when i was stopped. i was told that 3 of my valves had less than 35 psi of pressure when they should be running at about 160-180 psi of pressure so i had my dad and uncle replace the three valves since they happen to be excellent mechanics. But there is a problem that was not addressed at saturn which is the fact that my car will rev way beyond belief and finally jerk into the next gear. The motor will bog down and prevent me from going any faster than 25 miles per hour. this only happens on occasion, there doesnt seem to be a constant that makes the revving occur it just does it when it wants to. my dad is great with cars but he hasnt figured out the exact problem yet so for now im driving my 92' escort ( my rust bucket) which made me realize how much i love my saturn regardless of all its problems. and of course it burns oil like crazy right now due to the rings working overtime to support the new valves so those will need changing too i just cant see getting rid of a car that i only paid $800 for the body is excellent and the interior is even better but i cant say much for the motor if anyone has heard of any problems like this before i would appreciate any input you may have thank you

[mysatilac]

All SL2s are twin cam (DOHC), But in '92 there was no SC1 or SC2 just SC

Its an automatic transmission, thats important to list with these problems,

Because what it sounds like to me is that your tranny has problems or the Vehicle Speed Sensor see this thread, for the VSS

Or the valves, hate to say it were installed wrong, possibly torqued to the wrong specs,

Has the Service Engine Soon Light Come On? If yes, then Pull the codes,

But see what other advice you get,

[peppermrj]

Do you mean that the transmission revs betweeen gears or is the engine rpm fluctuating on its own?

Engine rpm fluctuation is a symptom of a bad coolant temp. sensor. Bad design that wasn't changed until someitme this century. Easy and inexpensive fix. Repalce with an improved all brass tip style from saturn. Got mine from saturnparts.com for $10+ . Shipping was $8 something more so if you need anything else do it all at once. Saturnparts.net has the same type of deal. You could check the price at the local dealer.
Not much more difficult than replacing a spark plug.

Oil consumption is almost a way of life. There is a service buletin recommending a top end ring cleaning procedure. Saw it at saturnfans forum

Good luck.

[mysatilac]

Good point could still be the ECTS, but its only between gears, which doesn't sound right to me, and should still allow you to go over 25MPH

[Meganski25]

eventually the car will go past 25 mph but it jerks alot, and the problem was there before the valves were installed, and already had the car hooked up to the computer to see if there was a tranny problem...none just egr valve which im sure isnt the revving problem. im sure my dad can figure it out just needs to know the codes i think....just wondered if anyone had any suggestions or a car that did anything similar but thanks anyway... yes the SES light is almost always on

[peppermrj]

please clarify for me. The engine revs while attempting to shift or while in gear increasing speed?

[mysatilac]

Originally Posted by Meganski25

im sure my dad can figure it out just needs to know the codes i think, yes the SES light is almost always on

Here is how to get the codes,

Originally Posted by mysatilac

You can jumper the top right terminal and the one directly to the left of it, on the ALDL, Assembly Line Data Link (next to the hood release)

The check engine light will flash
It will show a code 12 three times before and once after stored codes are shown, to show the system is working properly,
If there are no codes are stored, it will continue to flash code 12 till the jumper is removed. code 12 is shown by 1 flash, a pause, then 2 short flashes

Ex.
for a code of 23.
code 12 three times
It will flash twice (2), pause, then flash three times (3).
It will repeat the code three times, then show any other stored codes,
then code 12 once again

Do no try to start the car with the jumper in place.

[sierrap615]

Originally Posted by Meganski25

But there is a problem that was not addressed at saturn which is the fact that my car will rev way beyond belief and finally jerk into the next gear. The motor will bog down and prevent me from going any faster than 25 miles per hour.

Originally Posted by Meganski25

eventually the car will go past 25 mph but it jerks alot, and the problem was there before the valves were installed, and already had the car hooked up to the computer to see if there was a tranny problem...none just egr valve which im sure isnt the revving problem. im sure my dad can figure it out just needs to know the codes i think....just wondered if anyone had any suggestions or a car that did anything similar but thanks anyway... yes the SES light is almost always on

chances are you have a mechinical problem inside the transmission, most likey the input shaft nut has come loose. the poor acceration may or may not be related. how long after start up do the problems begin? beside jerkyness how does the car perfrom under 25? when you get over 25, how fast can you go? does acceration smooth out or remains poor? is the tranny shifting? also ask your father if he knows what a "stall speed test" is.

[Meganski25]

the car will rev high at different speeds. for example...merging onto the highway is very difficult since my car revs too high and will not go very fast upon acceleration once i get onto the highway and have been driving for a while at a steady speed it will not rev high, unless i attempt to speed up to pass someone. But if i am driving down residential streets the motor will bog down and the RPM's will go way up and the revving noise from the motor so i know it isnt just the gauges , especially when i take off at an intersection and shortly thereafter the car will rev high when i get through the intersection and onto the other road which is somewhat dangerous knowing how the drivers are around here.....i dont know much about cars but i am giving all your suggestions to my father and the sad thing is is that most of these things have already been checked on my car so i appreciate all the help...i do believe that my dad will be pulling my motor out and taking the heads off and replacing them since i was going through nearly 4 qts of oil in 3 days no joke....and he will probably rebuild the motor unless he can be sure of the problem....knowing my luck its probably something stupid!

[mysatilac]

Originally Posted by Meganski25

i was going through nearly 4 qts of oil in 3 days no joke....

Thats ALOT of oil, even for a saturn!

Your dad is right to look into internal problems, burning that much oil is something serious, probably like you said, your rings are shot

[sierrap615]

too many problems is right, at this point i could only give you an good diagnosis if i saw/tested/drove the vehicle myself. i'm thinking of everything between the torque convertor to the catylic convertor and back. that is, unless, you can pull the codes...

[peppermrj]

Good luck Meganski.
"4 qts. in 3 days"
You don't have rings. The oil from the pump is going dirrectly into the combustin chamber!

Let "Daddski" know we are rootin for him and if he has any questions once he opens the engine up mysatilac, sierrap615 and myself are only a post away.

[Meganski25]

the codes we got at the place were 26 QDM Fault, 32 EGR Problem, and 53 ESC Max Valve....so they said there were no tranny problems just engine so i dont know

[sierrap615]

ah ha, now we are getting somewhere.

code 32 is related to the EGR, could simple be clogged by the gallions of oil you are losing. - http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...es/dtc/32.html

code 43 is most likely a bad knock sensor or wiring - http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...es/dtc/43.html

the code 26 may be caused by code 32, don't address it yet

the 43 code may be the big cause of all the problems

if during the valve job your father found excessive carbon build-up, try this - http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25237

before changing the rings, try this - http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23676 and replace the PCV valve with a Saturn OEM valve from the dealership only (no cheapie part stores replacements for this guy) also check the coolent for oil and confirm there are no exterior leaks. if all this oil is going thru the exhaust it could lead to a clog cat. convert. but thats not the big issue at this time, i'll talk about that later.

also if the oil problem is new since the valve job make sure the head gasket was replaced, surfaces checked for warpage, and the bolts torqued porperly - Cylinder Head Bolt (In criss-cross sequence from center OUT)
DOHC-
Tighten all bolts in sequence to 22ft/lbs.
Then tighten all bolts to 37ft/lbs.
Repeat sequence, tightening all bolts an additional 1/4 turn.

[Meganski25]

it's a code 53, not 43.....the 53 is something about the ESC Max Valve...do you know what that is ???