types of cars

[scandune]

classify these cars into EITHER american or Forgien i know some are obvious but others are kinda tricky

honda
bmw
chrysler
mercedes
plymouth
oldsmobile
dodge
cadillac
mercury
mazda
nissan
saturn
ford
pontiac
lexus
infinity
chevy
toyota

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by scandune

classify these cars into EITHER american or Forgien i know some are obvious but others are kinda tricky

honda-foreign
bmw-foreign
chrysler-american
mercedes-foreign
plymouth-american
oldsmobile-american
dodge-american
cadillac-american
mercury-american
mazda-foreign
nissan-foreign
saturn-american
ford-american
pontiac-american
lexus-foreign
infinity-foreign
chevy-american
toyota-foreign

This is just the way that I see them, even though some might actually be manfuactured in the us

[scandune]

thanks

[curtis73]

honda - NOT foreign. As of the mid 90s the Honda cars sold her are American. Ohio is their American base of operations and since it is larger than their Japanese business, Sounds american to me. The last statistic I heard was that over 80% of the Hondas sold in America were made in America. You can always tell by the first digit of the VIN. "1" is US, "J" is japan, "2" is canada, "3" is Mexico... etc. Their Acura line is primarily Japanese.

bmw - German, from the state of Bavaria, Headquartered in its beautiful capitol of Munchen. They also own Rolls Royce and Mini

chrysler - American. Although now one with Daimler (Mercedes), the two vehicle lines retain their manufacturing homes. They also own American LaFrance, makers of the noisy firetrucks you see, as well as Kamyon, their Hungarian counterpart in trucks. They are also in and out of ownership of Freightliner.

mercedes - German, from Stuttgart, home of the highly acclaimed Stuttgart Ballet.

plymouth - Dead, gone, out the window.

oldsmobile - GM; Also dead. The last car to be produced by Oldsmobile was a pathetic Alero.

dodge - American, with DaimlerChrysler

cadillac - American built, but like many GMs right now its a tough line to draw. They own Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, Saturn, Saab, and hold partial ownership in Fiat, AlfaRomeo, Lancia, Subaru, Isuzu, Suzuki, and Maruti. Parts and cars come from Mexico, Australia, Japan, and the Italian counterpart is mostly a prestige move.

mercury - Ford; American. Dearborn, MI

mazda - Japanese production, but owned by Ford.

nissan - Japanese, with the exception of their partial ownership of Mack Trucks which are Japanese, Korean, and American.

saturn - Owned by GM; American

ford - American, but like GM, they also have many overseas companies; Volvo, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. Volvo is Swedish, Mazda is Japanese, and the remaining three are from Coventry England.

pontiac - GM; American

lexus - Toyota's luxury line, Japanese

infinity - Partially owned by Nissan, Japanese

chevy - American, GM

toyota - Japanese based in Tokyo; also own Lexus and Daihatsu

You forgot VW (who also owns Audi, Bentley, Skoda, Seat, Bugatti, and Lamborghini) are based in Wolfsburg, Germany.

There are also independents like Rover/MG, Porsche, Proton/Lotus (which used to be owned by GM), and Peugeot/Citroen.

If you think this is confusing, take a look at the relationships with these companies and big trucks. Visit www.globalauto.org and start poking around. Saying an American car company produces American cars is not the case at all these days. My dad currently owns three GM trucks. One was made in Mexico and two were made in Canada. Not a single one of his "American" cars was made in America. I on the other hand own a Japanese GM as well as three American GMs. You take the list above and compound the confusion with constant changes in allegiances, contracts, swapping, and sharing. The Chevy Geo line was not a Chevy at all. It was a Toyota, Suzuki, or Daihatsu. The new GTO is not American at all. Its the Australian's Holden Monaro rebadged and spiffed up.

Confusing, huh?

[jncodave]

[quote=curtis73]honda - NOT foreign. As of the mid 90s the Honda cars sold her are American. Ohio is their American base of operations and since it is larger than their Japanese business, Sounds american to me. The last statistic I heard was that over 80% of the Hondas sold in America were made in America. You can always tell by the first digit of the VIN. "1" is US, "J" is japan, "2" is canada, "3" is Mexico... etc. Their Acura line is primarily Japanese.


Yes that is all true but Honda is still based in Japan and therefore most people consider the company foreign

[drdisque]

just because most people consider it one way doesn't make it right

[curtis73]

True, however, I agree in this case. They are truly Japanese. Even if they were made entirely in Zimbabwe [sp] I would go as far as to say that they are Japanese based on their build quality and style.

[DinanM3_S2]

BMWs are also built in South Africa and South Carolina, but I wouldnt call them American or South African cars...

[Underground_Killah]

it's infiniti...

[CrzyMR2T]

actually, honda is one of the most japanese of all japanese manufacturers. its engineering is mostly done in japan, and its main headquarters are based in japan. it is foreign. i believe its one of the few companies that isnt teamed with another major foreign manufacturer. i see it as foreign, if most of that engineering is done in another country, not where its built in. based on this logic, i believe clawhammer has it about right.

chrysler is a subsidary of mercedez-benz.

ford owns 33% of mazda.

porsche and vw are partners.

there was a book on this, but i dont know where it is, and i forgot most of it.

a lot of companies are combined or owned by another now, but their own unique engineering still exists in some companies.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

chrysler is a subsidary of mercedez-benz.

No offense to anyone, but its so surprising how many people have this misconception. Chrysler bought Daimler Benz, so technically, benz is a subsidary of Chrysler. In truth they still operate mostly independently, but Benz is owned by Chrysler. They called it a merger, but (as I am a stockholder) it was a complete buyout to the tune of $6.3 billion or so.

Also, if you want to be technical, as of the late 90's, more Honda business goes through Ohio than Japan. Yes, they are a japanese company, but in 1996 they made the "move" to the US. Although their engineering is of a Japanese style, more of the engineering, parts, and assembly take place in Ohio than anywhere else. The EPA considers them to be foreign since more than XX% of their parts come from overseas, but one could debate that they were American. I do agree that engineering and style dictate the origin more than anything. If GM suddenly made everything front wheel drive and 4-cylinders that lasted more than 100k miles, I might consider them almost Korean

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by curtis73

No offense to anyone, but its so surprising how many people have this misconception. Chrysler bought Daimler Benz, so technically, benz is a subsidary of Chrysler. In truth they still operate mostly independently, but Benz is owned by Chrysler. They called it a merger, but (as I am a stockholder) it was a complete buyout to the tune of $6.3 billion or so.

Also, if you want to be technical, as of the late 90's, more Honda business goes through Ohio than Japan. Yes, they are a japanese company, but in 1996 they made the "move" to the US. Although their engineering is of a Japanese style, more of the engineering, parts, and assembly take place in Ohio than anywhere else. The EPA considers them to be foreign since more than XX% of their parts come from overseas, but one could debate that they were American. I do agree that engineering and style dictate the origin more than anything. If GM suddenly made everything front wheel drive and 4-cylinders that lasted more than 100k miles, I might consider them almost Korean

honda first built cars in the states back in the early 80s. all they did was move part of their business to the states to make more money. even though honda might sell a certain car more in the states, their main headquarters are still based in japan, and most of the engineering, especially the engine/transmission, is still done in japan. most of those cars that are made here, are cars like the civic, and accord. the s2000, and the nsx are made in japan. if you look at the stats, it will say that honda is japanese owned. still, the place of engineering, and style should dictate its origin, not where its made in.

[curtis73]

I agree. Japanese "spirit" defines its origin more than its headquarters. My counterpoint was that the EPA and the government consider "Honda America" and American car company since they are based here, operate here, and are built here with American parts. You don't get a "1" as the first digit of your VIN unless more than 70% of the parts are sourced in the US and its made here.

You point is very valid, its still designed in Japan, but bureacratically and legally the ones you buy here are american cars from an american car company.

[CrzyMR2T]

if you use this logic, you could consider some hardcore chevrolet, and ford cars foreign. you could say that, but it doesnt say much about the company's origin, name and engineering, any car can be built in another country. it depends on what car it is though, because of chassis, and engine sharing. like the saab 9-2 using subaru wrx chassis, and engine.

if you want to look at it like that, not all honda/acura cars you buy here would be considered american, or made in america, since not all of them are mostly made here in america.

[curtis73]

that's where the VIN designation really comes into play. A car doesn't get a "1" as its first digit unless its made here with mostly american parts.

So many people consider the new GMs American, but they are actually Australian in "spirit". Designed in part by the European Opel division. So the lines are incredibly blurred.

My friend refused to buy a foreign vehicle, so he bought a Chevy Pickup.... built in Canada with Mexican parts. I laughed when I told him that my Accord was more American than his truck.

The bottom line is that everything is blurred. Where do you draw the line? Lexus hired German designers to help with their SUVs to help compete with the BMW and Mercedes. GM owns or is affiliated with car companies in Australia, Korea, Japan, Italy, and many other European countries. In the Netherlands, the average number of GM cars per car owner is 1.1. That means for every family or person who owns vehicles, 1.1 on average is a GM. In the states, that number is something like .212 (that is 1996 data so its outdated)

Ford has the paws in about fifteen countries and draws designers and parts from even more. We're starting to get a little picky. Soon we'll be asking if Lexus' German designer did the designing while on German soil, or Japanese soil?

That's why the EPA and other organizations have come up with the unified VIN numbering system. If a car is both headquartered and built in America with 70% or more American parts, it gets a VIN that starts with "1". That same vehicle, if constructed in Canada with American parts, gets a "2". Its not a complete system of numbering yet, but it covers what is necessary. The same thing goes for Japanese cars getting a "J". The American Hondas are true american cars, getting a "1" in the VIN since they are built in the US by a US company; Honda America. The same Honda built in Japan falls under Honda Japan's jurisdiction and therefore gets a "J" regardless of where it sells.