FBI Warned to be on the lookout for people with almanacs...

[Toksin]

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/12/29/fbi/

"The practice of researching potential targets is consistent with known methods of al-Qaida and other terrorist organizations that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful planning," the FBI wrote." WOW!! Shit, really? I thought they just flipped a coin and went, "RIGHT! We attack this one in five minutes!"

Roll on the paranoia!! *gasp!* We can't have people knowing stuff! Next thing knowledge will be illegal. This has to be the most ridiculous thing YET. I can't think of how many people will be pulled up for no reason at all.

GG America.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Toksin

We can't have people knowing stuff! Next thing knowledge will be illegal. This has to be the most ridiculous thing YET.

Why is that surprising, you're talking about a nation where ignorance is the norm. Making knowledge illegal is the only logical next step. [/skepticism]

[taranaki]

I am reminded of some of the dafter things done in the second world war....One that sticks in the mind was the removal of all rural sign posts in Britain,supposedly to make it harder for an advancing German army to navigate.

It's more than a little bit stupid in the 21st century to assume that your enemy will be some nasty little raghead straight off a flight from the Middle East,armed with explosives and a guidebook,yet that is exactly the stereotype that the authorities are projecting.The scary truth is that there are probably enough foreign nationals already living in the States to raise merry hell if they chose to.The authorities seem to be hellbent on prolonging the feeling of fear and uncertainty about national security for some alternative purpose,perhaps as a way of justifying the ongoing death and destruction in the occupied nation of Iraq.The most effective tools against terrorism are accurae information and secrecy.Neutralise the terrorists without publicity,and you deny them their mission.Run around trumpetting things like 'code orange' and 'stranger danger' only muddies the waters and makes it harder for the counter-terrorism experts to do their job.

Propaganda like this only assists the terrorists' aims.Why go to any trouble to disrupt and unsettle a country when the government seems perfectly capable of doing it on their own?Bush's re-election chances rest on the population seeing him as protecting them from harm.Take all the bullshit about fighting terrorism in Iraq to prevent fighting the terrorists in smalltown America out of the equation,and the logic of being there falls down completely.You are far more likely to die in a motor accident than at the hands of a fundamentalist.So why not concentrate on the very real issue of road safety than the blanket paranoia about a miniscule threat?

[MagicRat]

I do recall the British taking down the roadsigns in the last war.
Have you ever travelled through Ireland? Its a beautiful country and culture in every way, but, I swear, they never put up any roadsigns in the first place. Navigation for tourists requires a compass and a Ouija board.

[blindside.AMG]

The funniest thing in the world is that you people from other countries believe all this BS like it's gospel. Do you really think people are going to get pulled over for carrying an almanac? Do you really think the American public is that ignorant? You think the US govermant is using propaganda on it's own people. But in reality, it's being used on you. You believe all the bad news you hear from your sources. If the US government has control on all the media sources in the United States then it controls everything you read/hear in your country as well. The fact remains that 2 years have gone by with terroist threats and nothing has happened. Are they just bull shitting or has the US system worked? That's the real question. But then again, it's easy to talk shit when most of the world doesn't give a shit if your country is there or not.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by blindside.AMG

The funniest thing in the world is that you people from other countries believe all this BS like it's gospel.

The Associated Press obtained a copy of the bulletin this week and verified its authenticity.
That's close enough to the truth for me.

It's getting rather tedious and predictable that the gung-ho patriots would rather try to turn the argument into an attack on those who point out shortcomings in America's defence policies,rather than address the issues themselves.

And as you say,there have been no further attacks on mainland America since sept 11.Which makes the current round of scaremongering without any reason seem suspiciously like a propaganda device to ensure continued support for the immoral occupation and killings in Iraq.

[blindside.AMG]

Originally Posted by taranaki

And as you say,there have been no further attacks on mainland America since sept 11.Which makes the current round of scaremongering without any reason seem suspiciously like a propaganda device to ensure continued support for the immoral occupation and killings in Iraq.

This is a no win paragraph to argue against. Either America was attacked and our security actions were a failure or we leave Iraq early without ensuring it has a proper foundation and when it fails we get blamed. Sorry Mr. New Zealand, I'm going to side with country that's actually been involved in the Middle East before. I'm going to side with a country that's demolished and rebuilt countries before. What are you going to complain about when Iraq is free and a repectable country? Hey! You can always join Jimster and call us fat!!!

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by blindside.AMG

This is a no win paragraph to argue against. Either America was attacked and our security actions were a failure or we leave Iraq early without ensuring it has a proper foundation and when it fails we get blamed. Sorry Mr. New Zealand, I'm going to side with country that's actually been involved in the Middle East before. I'm going to side with a country that's demolished and rebuilt countries before. What are you going to complain about when Iraq is free and a repectable country? Hey! You can always join Jimster and call us fat!!!

I can't see a winning way forward for the States.Since the original premise for attacking Iraq has proven to be unjustified[WMD's?...check back through this forum,I called this one as a crock from day one],the U.S. is clearly in the wrong for being there at all.The only way that Bush can salvage any credibility is to stand up in front of the cameras and admit that he stuffed up badly,and is pulling his troops out immediately.

Bush junior has no military experience worth shit,and should not be in charge of troops.Come to that,he shouldn't be left in charge of a tray of girl scout cookies.

[Cbass]

I'll just quietly move to Europe, and watch as the American Empire collapses.

[zebrathree]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Bush junior has no military experience worth shit,and should not be in charge of troops.Come to that,he shouldn't be left in charge of a tray of girl scout cookies.

In saying that though Naki, you need to remember that very few world leaders actually do.

Clark? No
Shipley? No
Boldger? No

Those are our last three and they didn't.

It's a common thing for idiots to be in charge of real people. It doesn't make it right.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by zebrathree

In saying that though Naki, you need to remember that very few world leaders actually do.

Clark? No
Shipley? No
Boldger? No

Those are our last three and they didn't.

It's a common thing for idiots to be in charge of real people. It doesn't make it right.

I don't recall any of those idiots being arrogant and stupid enough to start a war.

[zebrathree]

Thats a fair point.

Mind you, I am still all for taking over a nice Froggy owned Pacific island as reparation for 85

[MagicRat]

No one will shed a tear for the ouster of Saddam or the Baathists in Iraq. He is a mass murduring bastard to be sure. However, it was the way in which the ouster was done that is wrong. To invade a soverign nation under false pretences is wrong.
The US can rebuild Iraq into a democratic country which will be far better for all concerned, and I hope they do, but that does not excuse their actions.
Frankly, the rest of the world wonders who's next?
I think Canada is quite vulnerable as it has more recoverable oil in Alberta alone than in all the Middle East. Its all in tar sands which is somewhat more expensive to recover than Middle eastern liquid crude.
It would not be the first time the US has invaded Canada. Remember Manifest Destiny? How about the War of 1812, or the Finian Raids in the mid 19th Century?
I wonder, for all the effort and money spent securing crude oil supplies, that nuclear fusion could be perfected. An almost inexhaustable supply of electricty, with subsequent hydrogen production could mean we could thumb our collective noses at the Middle East with impunity.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

No one will shed a tear for the ouster of Saddam or the Baathists in Iraq. He is a mass murduring bastard to be sure. However, it was the way in which the ouster was done that is wrong. To invade a soverign nation under false pretences is wrong.
The US can rebuild Iraq into a democratic country which will be far better for all concerned, and I hope they do, but that does not excuse their actions.
Frankly, the rest of the world wonders who's next?

The US won't turn Iraq into a true democracy, as that would put radical Islamists into power, and many of them are less than pleased with the way the US is running things already. The US will do what they always do, install a puppet government and milk the country for everything it is worth.

Originally Posted by MagicRat

I think Canada is quite vulnerable as it has more recoverable oil in Alberta alone than in all the Middle East. Its all in tar sands which is somewhat more expensive to recover than Middle eastern liquid crude.
It would not be the first time the US has invaded Canada. Remember Manifest Destiny? How about the War of 1812, or the Finian Raids in the mid 19th Century?

The costs of refining those tar sands into crude oil are prohibitive, there isn't all that much profit to be had from it yet. Up until recently, it cost more to refine the stuff than you'd make from selling it.

Iraq on the other hand, has the largest reserves of low sulphur oil on the planet.

The US doesn't have to invade Canada, for the last 20 years our politicians have been selling it to them at bargain basement prices.

Originally Posted by MagicRat

I wonder, for all the effort and money spent securing crude oil supplies, that nuclear fusion could be perfected. An almost inexhaustable supply of electricty, with subsequent hydrogen production could mean we could thumb our collective noses at the Middle East with impunity.

This is an excellent point, but remember who is pulling the strings here, the oil companies. They're interested in stealing oil, not making hydrogen.