305 Bad Mouthing

[volz1fsu]

I just thought I would go off on people who bad mouth the 305. It does not upset me so much as it saddens me to see people doing this. I believe that if you say bad things about the 305 then you might as well be saying them about the 350 because as anyone should know, they are the same engine with different bores. Now just because GM made the mistake in using the 305 strictly as an engine with good economy and not for performance doesn't make it junk. It is just as easy to build up a 305 as a 350 and it is cheaper too. The only bad thing GM did to give the engine such a bad reputation was to put bad flowing heads and manifolds on it. There are a lot of performance parts out there for the 305 and all it takes some looking to find them. You can find stroker kits for the 305 to stroke it out to a 335 and World Products makes a great set of heads for the 305 as well. Combined with a good cam and intake, It wouldn't be uncommon to see 400hp. If anyone is interested in this kind of performance, I found a great website that appreciates the 305 as much as I do and I think it deserves a look if you are in the dark with the 305. http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/modthel03.html

[akbar347]

yeah i take a lot of crap because everyone says i will blow my engine running a 135 hp wet nitrous shot on a 305. the 305 isn't any weaker than the 350.

[banditkiller]

Hmmm... Dont get all pissy now. Hard rock motor.... Hmm hard as a rock to make power from basic boltons. Swaping the whole intake manifold isnt a basic bolton. Maybe the throttle body injection. Most ppl give crap for that simple fact. Put basic bolt on's on a 90 mustang lx.... or an 5.7 iroc.... i/h/e some ud pullies timing advance gears. The 305 isnt that bad of a motor.... but why start with something that you have out to change a whole intake mani or heads to even run with something like a h/e 5 speed mustang ... let alone its more powerful brother ... a 305 or 350 tpi? I saw an article somewhere. I think it was car craft.They built a 305 tbi . Got it into the 11's... yeah it changed my mind about the 305 some... Until they gave their estiamte for how much it cost em. It is after all your choice. Honestly never been a fan of the 305. Not even the tpi. Although I would take a tpi over a tbi.I did have a chance to buy a 92 rs 305 with a 5 speed. But something didnt feel right about the guy selling it. I had the feeling it would go to shit if I bought it so I didnt. Just my 2

[curtis73]

I don't bad mouth them, but you hit the nail on the head yourself. "small bore" They have 17% less volume, but their performance potential is alot less than just 17% less. The small bores shroud valves big time. They can make some torque, but there was a reason they didn't ever rev. THey are just as reliable if not more, but if I were to bad mouth them its because they are a poor choice for performance. Its not just parts, either, its the physical limitation presented with the small bores.

I've owned two; one in a light 3/4 truck and one in a Monte Carlo. Both sucked big time. I'm sure they would have lasted forever. One was rated at 145 and the other at 160. Neither made close to that much power... more like 120-140 maybe, but the money I would have spent on getting them to 300 hp would have bought and installed a 450-hp 350 crate motor.

You are correct, though. They get a bad rap because GM never developed good parts for them and now nobody wants them. There is no reason why they cant breathe, its just tougher with the small bores. For my money, why try if I can do it with a 350 alot easier. Its just a game of numbers. I do disagree with you on one thing, though. I think its more expensive with a 305. That shows up in the aftermarket section. More people choose the 350 because its cheaper to make power.



I know a big following for the Olds 307, too. They're big weakness is the windowed main webs that keep them below 7000 rpms.

[volz1fsu]

When I say they are cheaper to build, I meant that the same parts are a bit cheaper for the 305. Take for example the World Products S/R Torquer heads, The 305 torquer heads are almost 100 bucks cheaper for the pair than the pair for the 302, 327, 350, and 400 Small Blocks. Of course the parts that the 350 shares with the 305, like the cam, intake, rods, and crankshaft, they are all going to be the same price of course. I meant to say that they are cheaper to build but what I didnt express is that they are not cheaper to build to get the same amount of power as a 350 for the same price. Of course you would take a big cut in power but if you have the 305, then you might as well give it a shot. You might be surprised that 300 horse is a very reasonable amount to get out of a 305 if you take the time to build it. And hey, I am sure it is cheaper to get the 300 out of the 305 than it is to buy a crate 350 with the same power. You might take a cut in torque but I imagine it wouldn't be loads of it. I would rather go for the value myself but if you are all about loads of power, then the 350 is no doubt the better choice. I would rather be a little different though. And hey, I can always turn to the nitrous for a thrill here and there.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by volz1fsu

I would rather be a little different though. And hey, I can always turn to the nitrous for a thrill here and there.

Amen on the being different part. I have a 66 Bonneville with a Caddy 500, and I had an 87 cutlass that I was going to put a 302 windsor Ford in it. I knew a guy who put a Hemi in an El Camino.

[pre]

Originally Posted by curtis73

Amen on the being different part. I have a 66 Bonneville with a Caddy 500, and I had an 87 cutlass that I was going to put a 302 windsor Ford in it. I knew a guy who put a Hemi in an El Camino.

That should be illegal a 302 ford in a GM

[Countilaw]

The 305 is a great dependable engine and with a little work is a good torqer. I just built a 305 with flat top pistons, LT1 cam, ported and polished heads and exhaust manifolds with over sized valves with a three angle grinde. Added a MSD coil and ignition. Took it down to a dyno test and it was putting out 240 hp @ 5300 rpm. It will smoke the rear tires from a dead stop and get a squeal on the first shift. The autotrans is still stock. So there is a lot of life in the sb 305 with an investment of less than $1,000.
Countilaw

[wowcars]

True that you might end up with some less power than a 350 by building up a 305, but nobody takes into consideration the cost of having to BUY a 350 to start with. Also, a lot of the 305 parts WILL interchange if ever you were able to step up to a 350. i.e. headers, ignition, some cams, intake, etc. If you have the ability, 305s take very kindly to mild superchargers or turbos. Personally Im starting to think that the Smaller Block Chevy is just a wolf in sheeps clothes.

[CARNIGG]

This is exactly what I was lookin for.......all the things that were mentioned as far as mods go, are any of those made smog legal?....Livin in CALI its a must, because I would love to see what the 305 in my Caprice could do.....unless it gets sold before then

oh yea...and whats the difference between TPI and TBI?...and which is better?

[dxrflyboy]

350s were introduced in 1967, when horespower output was peaking. In 1970, when the 327 was discontinued, the 350 that replaced it was putting out 1+hp/cube. 305s were introduced in 1976 when power output was near the bottom of its downward spiral Chevy was putting the worst cylinder heads they ever cast on all small-blocks. Remember the 882 and 624 heads for the 350/400? Burn a valve and throw them away! Good thing there were so many of them! 305 heads were even worse. Between lean fuel mixtures, retarded timing, small valves, combustion chambers so hot that they detonated all the time no matter what you did, the 305 earned a terrible performance reputation. Like the 307, most people don't bother doing anything with them - they just swap in a 350. But performance is on the upswing nowadays, and the 305 has enjoyed the benefits of that too - Vortec cylinder heads, fuel injection, etc. A TBI 305 in a late '80s Chevy truck had the same horsepower rating as a mid ' 70s 350 4bbl. True, you can do everything to a 350 that you can do to a 305 and make even more power, but if you have a healthy 305 that you want to keep, you can make plenty of power with it. F-bodies with 305s run 13s without too much difficulty. And think of the satisfaction of blowing the doors off some idiot telling you what a dog your 305 is!

[a1supersport]

Originally Posted by CARNIGG

This is exactly what I was lookin for.......all the things that were mentioned as far as mods go, are any of those made smog legal?....Livin in CALI its a must, because I would love to see what the 305 in my Caprice could do.....unless it gets sold before then

oh yea...and whats the difference between TPI and TBI?...and which is better?

Throttle Port Injection (TPI), Throttle Body Injection (TBI). Supposedly TPI is better.

[a1supersport]

Originally Posted by dxrflyboy

350s were introduced in 1967, when horespower output was peaking. In 1970, when the 327 was discontinued, the 350 that replaced it was putting out 1+hp/cube. 305s were introduced in 1976 when power output was near the bottom of its downward spiral Chevy was putting the worst cylinder heads they ever cast on all small-blocks. Remember the 882 and 624 heads for the 350/400? Burn a valve and throw them away! Good thing there were so many of them! 305 heads were even worse. Between lean fuel mixtures, retarded timing, small valves, combustion chambers so hot that they detonated all the time no matter what you did, the 305 earned a terrible performance reputation. Like the 307, most people don't bother doing anything with them - they just swap in a 350. But performance is on the upswing nowadays, and the 305 has enjoyed the benefits of that too - Vortec cylinder heads, fuel injection, etc. A TBI 305 in a late '80s Chevy truck had the same horsepower rating as a mid ' 70s 350 4bbl. True, you can do everything to a 350 that you can do to a 305 and make even more power, but if you have a healthy 305 that you want to keep, you can make plenty of power with it. F-bodies with 305s run 13s without too much difficulty. And think of the satisfaction of blowing the doors off some idiot telling you what a dog your 305 is!

Ahhh, the 307 ...fond memories. Always threw those motors away...shouldn't have though. A 283 bore, with a 327 stroke...the performance possibilities. By the way, 283 (3.875 bore) heads (I'm sure someone has a bunch of them laying around) will fit perfect on a 305 (3.75 bore). Using 283 heads should help the 305's performance without the cost of new heads. Just a little suggestion for the "financially challenged".

[dxrflyboy]

Beating a Rustang with a 305...priceleless!

[CARNIGG]

Thanks for the bit of info...I never really appreciated the engine until now, owning this '87 LS...I wish I could put a newer 5.7 out the 9C1 in my baby.....and put SS instead of LS in the window. DAMN!!