The fix is on?

[RallyRaider]

Looks like Bridgestone (and its teams) think they have found the Michelin advantage and have sucessfully lobbied the FIA to fix things back to their favour.

The FIA are threatening to change their procedure for checking the legality of tyres to knobble Michelin. The details should be on all the major F1 news sites.

To think the bastards had me excited about the championship situation, should have known better

[ales]

But if the tyres are legal then the way of changing the legality shouldn't matter, right?

[freakray]

Come on now Phil, did you think they were going to let a Michelin shod team win the championship?

The real question is, did they really find anything or is it all speculation?

We all know where the loyalties fall when it comes to the F1 governing body.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by ales

But if the tyres are legal then the way of changing the legality shouldn't matter, right?

They are not changing the 'legality', they are changing the inspection procedures.
Previously the tyres were examined before the race and before any wear had taken place, now they will be inspected before and after.
The claim is that the Michelin tyres contact patch is increasing as the tyres wear.

Wouldn't it be funny if this backfires on the Bridgestone whiners too.

[ales]

My point exactly - the legality isn't changed. If the contact patch doesn't expand - nothing to worry about. If it does - mirky waters. Obviously, you won't see me complaining, as Ididn't see you complaining when the FIA spent so much effort on making sure they slow Ferrari down his season.

[RallyRaider]

This threat by the FIA is not just a worry for Michelin but all teams (unless it really is another fix in favour of the chose one of course). When the grooved tyres where first introduced all and sundry expressed their concerns about cars being disqualified after the race for excessive wear. But the FIA assured everybody that they need not worry.

Now they have opened up a can of worms. What if Schumacher wins the next race but one of his tyres wacks a curb, looses pressure and is a bit outside specification after the race? Will the FIA act then...

So why do they choose to use the trump card now? Plenty of times Ron Denis has pointed the finger at Ferrari but the FIA stuck to it's "check the tyre when new" rule. Now Ferrari are on the back foot and the FIA want to put the foot down. Just another in a long line of coincidences. Credibility can only stretch so far!

All it really boils down to is a massive inconvenience for Michelin and their teams. They would have progressed on building tyres of a certain construction and compound for the next few races, now they will have to start again factoring in this potential new inspection. Could give Ferraristone the time they need to catch up.



Damn the busy server, my original reply was much more insightful and witty but got dumped

[RallyRaider]

Originally Posted by ales

My point exactly - the legality isn't changed. If the contact patch doesn't expand - nothing to worry about. If it does - mirky waters. Obviously, you won't see me complaining, as Ididn't see you complaining when the FIA spent so much effort on making sure they slow Ferrari down his season.

Slow Ferrari down? How did they do that?

Murky waters indeed. Is it that the contact patch expands or simply that the tyre rolls so the shoulder is in contact under cornering load a bit like a motorbike? As usual for Formula One were are speculating knowing none of the facts.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by ales

My point exactly - the legality isn't changed. If the contact patch doesn't expand - nothing to worry about. If it does - mirky waters. Obviously, you won't see me complaining, as Ididn't see you complaining when the FIA spent so much effort on making sure they slow Ferrari down his season.

If you are referring to the rule changes that were brought about for the 2003 season Mr. Lamus, then I suggest you go back and check the old threads, I was complaining as loudly as anyone else about them.

I think there is more to the contact area issue than anyone takes into account, as Phil mentioned, bumping a curb can effect the contact patch. What about the cambers some of the teams utilise on some tracks, adjusting the camber changes the contact patch too, does this mean negative camber will no longer be allowed?

The fact that this has come into effect so late in the season is somewhat suspect anyway, don't you think?

[zebrathree]

Interesting thread.

[Veyron]

What a shock. j/k

Ross Brawn has revealed that Ferrari were responsible for alerting the FIA of their suspicions over Michelin’s tyres.

The technical boss told the Italian press that the team had contacted the sport’s governing body, despite Max Mosley's earlier claim that Ferrari hadn't been the source.

Brawn said Ferrari contacted the FIA after seeing photographs that proved their rivals, Williams and McLaren were using illegal tyres.

He told the Gazzetta dello Sport: "It all started in Budapest when Bridgestone got hold of some photos taken in the paddock by a Japanese.

"They showed in an unequivocal way that the front Michelin tyres had an excessively large tread at the end of the race or after being used.

"We turned to Charlie Whiting who, on the basis of his measurements and the photos, then sent the famous letter.

"We could have pretended to have seen nothing, to not let the FIA know and then lodge a complaint at the following race, but that didn't seem like the right thing to do."

Brawn estimated that the advantage in the wider tread could make a car half a second quicker.

But he fell short of saying that the advantage of the Michein tyres had been enough to explain Ferrari’s recent lack of pace.

He said: "You can't say that. But it's clear that if you take an advantage like that away from the competition you'll find yourself in a better position."

He also said he hoped that Michelin would change their tyres for the next race so Ferrari would not have to make a protest after the Italian GP.

He said: "I hope it does not come to that, that Michelin realise that they have enjoyed an illegal advantage for so long, too long, and that they conform to what the FIA sets out. In any case, it's a problem for the sporting authorities."

[freakray]

It's weird that the Ferrari crew are claiming that a wider tyre makes the car 1/2 a second quicker, yet Bridgestone claim they don't think there is any advantage to wider front tyres which is why they don't use them.

At Bridgestone, no such worries about the front tyres. The Japanese manufacturer is producing front tyres with a tread width of only 220 mm, simply because they believe that a wider tyre offers more drawbacks than advantages.

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...02135258.shtml

You would think that since Ferrari and Bridgestone are such intimate bed partners, they would make sure they are all saying the same thing, yet if I read the statements from Ferrari and then the comment from Bridgestone, they seem to be saying the opposite.

Also, I can't fathom how, with just a photo, you can say there is no doubt the tyres are illegal?
Unless somebody has actually put something like a tape measure or scale on the tyre and then taken the photo, there is no way you can get an actual size from a photo.

In addition, if the whole debate is about the contact area when cornering, surely if the tyre is 'rolling' so the sidewall to the inside of the corner is in contact with the surface, the same rolling action is causing the opposite shoulder of the tyre to lift away from the pavement.
Do they expect the contact area to be static?
Simple engineering physics tells me that as the load on the tyre changes through the corner, the contact patch of the tyre changes.

[RallyRaider]

Same old Ferrari story. We didn't think of it first, we can't make it work so let's cry foul, then deny all knowledge. The sycophantic FIA(T) then bows down (and the other teams and fans bend over).

Ross Brawn's story doesn't even comply with the statements in Charlie Whitings letter. Wonder who is lying there. Given the track record of Brawn it isn't hard to guess.

The line about proving the tyres were illegal is complete bulls#*t. The tyres are only POSSIBLY illegal now that the FIA has changed its inspection procedures. Wonder who requested that? Not much doubt who really makes the rules in F1, hey.

Also complete and utter bollocks is his compassionate stance that he could have lodged a complaint at the next race. Fat lot of good that would have been before the rules were effectively changed wouldn't it?

How much longer can you members of the red brigade deny the hypocrisy and dishonesty of Ferrari? Okay it is nice to back a winner but is that any way to win...

[Guido]

That article of Brawn on F1.racing-live.com is very interesting, however Phil, the reallyinteresting reading takes place near the bottom:

The FIA has threatened to disqualify teams using these tyres at the Italian Grand Prix on September 14. In Hungary 10 days ago, Fernando Alonso's Michelin-shod Renault actually lapped Schumacher's Ferrari -- an almost unheard-of incident in Formula One. FIA president Max Mosley and Whiting, his technical delegate, visited the Ferrari factory in Maranello last week, where they met the president, Luca Di Monteze molo, the sporting director, Jean Todt, Brawn, Schumacher, and various engineers.

Now, is there please someone who can explain me loud and clear what Mosley and Whiting went doing there? Please don't tell me it's because they wanted to hear the story from Ferrari's bosses mouths, since Whiting had his measurements and Brawn the pictures (in digital form, so easily sendable by email), because that would be a weak explanation. They should have gone to Williams and McLaren to verify all those rumours and accusations, no?

[Guido]

OK Guys, GNewton has already been reported.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by huudo

OK Guys, GNewton has already been reported.

Multiple times......let's hope he is gone soon.