EGR Valves Dirty

[Searles Lewis]

I asked a question without switching subjects and re-posting. I received no responses at all.


My friend checked the plenum yesterday, and it was hot by the #1 valve, and then I was able to find an egr reference in one of the poss I cannot fidn now, but it seems according to the post, if the egr metering valve is plugged, it can cause that, and make the #1 cylinder get all of the o2 or egr, and cause that to superheat.

This makes sense. I am however unsure how to clean out the intake egr thoroughly. I bought some mineral spirits, and a pick to pull out the junk. What else can I do to remove the build up? Canb I pour b-12 chemtool into the hole, and then re-start it?

BTW, I wanted to do the 0171 & 0174 fix back in January, but delayed, due to sub-freezing temps, and the fa ct my friend told me it was something else. I wish I'd done it earlier, and checked anyway.

Any useful replies would be appreciated. I have to wait until it warms up enough to do the work!

[Searles Lewis]

http://www.automotiveforums.com/t105...t_s_cause.html

Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?

What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?

[olopezm]

Hi, you got no responses because your problem was already being addressed in the previous threads .

Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.

Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.

Oscar.

[catvents]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

http://www.automotiveforums.com/t105...t_s_cause.html

Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?

What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?

THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....

It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by catvents

THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....

It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

Okay, well mine are pretty thoroughly covered with gook. I'd already went ahead and cleaned it with mineral spirits, and was told by someone else they dry off fast, which doesn't seem to be true.

"Clean these parts with mineral spirits. " I did that, because honestly, I've never seen so much crud on it, and the guy said the same thing. He said it was grody. Mine actually had black stuff coating it. I could not remove it with the pick and towel, and was able to remove most of it with the mineral spirits soaked into the towel. It was black, and like tar.

I have left it for two hours, drying, and will hook it back up when I get back home. 3 holes were completely blocked. I do not have a shop vac, nor access to one at all. My friend refused to lend his to me, and I have no other options.

I was able to rinse some of it out. I also had to pick the rest, with a nut pick like you use at Christmas. It was gummy and like hardened black fish roe.

I asked here, basically because everyone else I spoke to told me I was over-reacting to fixing it, they said we live in the southwest, it will dry of with the 20-30% humidity we have. I posted here, didn't get a response, waited and checked again ,then dove in, so it is too late now. I also got a lot of it on my hands ,and it appears to have made me high. I do not have any rubber gloves, so I guess I'll just have to wait it out.

I plan on going home, and re-attaching the plenum top, and starting it up.

The isolator bolts did not have any black residue on them at all, and are green-shouldered, so I am guessing they have already been replaced. I was supposed to get a ride from the relative this morning, but she is crazy, and woke us up early, screaming and hreatening until I got out an mp3 player to record, and she stopped. She accused me of wrecking her computer, which I had not done, and then stormed out. When she came back ,she just refused to speak to me, apologized to my Honey, and left.


Upshot is, our car died, or was malfunctioning and misfiring. I keep telling people the same thing , do not have a car right now, have to depend on other people's judgments. My friend had been telling me to go stepwise, and originally told me the plenum was fine ,then about-faced last night, said number 1 valve was theonly clean one, must be the problem one. I checked wiswind's posted answer, and then cleaned the egr posrts, they were blocked shut, symptoms matched my experience, friend confirmed it, and I went ahead already.

I was trying to avoid any problems with explosions, because since I started this repair gig about a month or two ago, everyone has told my, one wrong addition of something to the engine could cause an explosion or engine failure. I guess I don't know what to believe, and I have had to deal with a literally psychotic relative who will promise to take me for parts, then backs out, and claims I am crazy. My honey is mentally retarded/learning disabled, freaks when this happens, and does nothing. So it has been me, dealing with blow-ups, bad information, conflicting information, and having to guess. I relied on my friend's experience, and autozone told me if I took off the plenum, instead of 6 gaskets, I'd have to buy an intake kit which cost 60$, plus rtv, and I had 35$. My relative threatened my honey if she helped pay, and we are both on disability, so I had to wait each time until my crazy relative calmed down to get a ride. Most days, all things considered, I can work on the car from noon to 5, need to buy parts in the afternoon, have no idea how things are going to go.

I'm not trying to blow you guys off, but if you get threatened enough, or yelled at, you tend to be much more likely to be reserved, and also rely on other people's judgment. My friend told me yesterday what it was, but dx'd it as the egr thing which he told me would not affect anything at all, since it just re-used gases, and also stated the cylinder was having a problem, after telling me the compression was fine.

When I do get to talk to him, I have to pre-approve it with his wife, as she decides when he does and does not. She had previously tried getting us into trouble with the state with our kids, and she is intentionally difficult and has a rep for it(she works with an org that counsels families in trouble with cps, so she has vested interest in doing that) so even tho we have passed every investigation with flying colors, she totally hates me. More so, since I was right. BTW, did I mention she had a foster kid taken out of her custody, yet still contracts for teachign parents what to do, and I helped my honey get cusotdy, full and total, or her 4 and helped raise them, with the most difficult telling me I was right with everything I did?

For tools, I have a craftsman set of socket wrenches, a pair of pliers, a jack and jackstands, a haynes book, and whatever I can borrow for the half hour I usually get to speak with him, in between the crazy rants from my relative and my helping my honey figure things out.

That's why I kept asking-I had different responses, didn't want to piss someone off I needed for parts or knowhow, and only had so much time to try.

Relative humidity is 11% right now. I was under the impression the mineral spirits would throughly dry. I could not scrape and wipe the stuff off, and two friends from church explained since it was an intake for the engine, if I just poured it and wiped, it would wash off. It did. They said it would dry, without causing an explosion. I really hope that is true.

That is where I am. In the past two days, the ranting relative went thru town, to the library, to the grocery store, telling everyone how abusive I was, and etc. I did not do anything at all. My Honey freaked, and became obedient as a way to deal with it, with her. She has since apologized.

So, I'm stuck, at 3:12 pm, wondering if my car is cleaned and fixed, or from what you guys have stated it will now ignite and become a fireball. My choice is stay where I am and wait indefinitely for it to dry, or just go take a chance. The crazy relative has admitted to me alone ,she had clicked on things going into windows which installed different drivers for usb stuff, and then uninstalled others, and downloaded "by mistake" a virus, which she blamed on me in public, but in private admitted she did. It took me 4 hours Saturday night to fix all of it. That morning, she re-booted, and the windows pop up told her to install something, and she did it, which killed it.

I've already spoken to her therapist, I know she is psychotic. But she was my ride. My friend gets home in about an hour, which means I have maybe, that half hour window of tools and help. I am going home, gonna start it up, after re-attaching the plenum cover, and hope it works. The ports are mostly clear, I dug out and washed/rinsed the egr with mineral spirits, like it seemed to say, and my two church friends told me to do.

Now you more throughly know my situation ,what would you have me do? I am going to re-attach the intake plenum top, and start it up.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by catvents

THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....

It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

They are as clean as I can get them. The gunk I could get, multiple scrapings with a little mineral spirits added, and then scraped out again, and the mineral spirits soaked towel used to wipe and scritch as much as I could off of the little scooped brass it sat in. It is no longer totally black, just some gray spots and brass color now.

Is that good enough?

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Hi, you got no responses because your problem was already being addressed in the previous threads .

Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.

Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.

Oscar.

Okay, could not get the isolator bolts, due to problems I described. I got my checks, and money, am only lacking a way to get there.

I have already poured the mineral spirits onto the brass piece with the 1/4 inch hole.

What can I expect from that? explosion? Two seconds of racing engine?

[wiswind]

My windstar was a '96, so the leckemby isolator bolt fix does not apply to mine, since it was applicable only to the 1999 and newer Windstar when they went to the "improved" upper intake manifold arrangment......multi-part instead of the 1 molded unit that they used on the 1996 through 1998.

Here is a picture of what the clogged EGR ports on mine looked like.


The clogged ports are clearly shown in the bottom 2 intake ports.
They only seem to build that junk up right there in the 1/4" hole.

I would not pour any liquid down into the EGR port, and what will happen when you start the vehicle up will depend upon how much you poured down.

To remove the fluid, you would need to remove the EGR valve....could be a bit of work.
You would then use something like brake cleaner.....and catch it as it runs out the EGR valve location.
DO NOT try to flush it out with the EGR valve in place!!!!
I mention brake cleaner because it dries clean leaving no residue.

I would really like to have cleaned up the IMR "butterfly" plates, visible in the very top intake ports in the picture....however, I did very little cleaning of them because, as mentioned in a post above...you do NOT want to flush that crud on down into the intake.....as it will then be drawn right into the cylinders.

BEST way to clean the EGR ports is with a small pick....and a vaccum........
In the absence of a vaccum cleaner......a rag will do just fine.
I used a "pipe cleaner" (available at craft stores).....and a rag to clean them.
I picked junk out.....and then "buffed" them up with the pipe cleaner.
One could wet the pipe cleaner with a solvent and wipe with it if they wanted.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by wiswind

Here is a picture of what the clogged EGR ports on mine looked like.

Okay, well it was cleaned out enough ,I started it up, it sounds exactly the same.

My friend told me, if I can ,get the two sensors from a used parts place. My crazy relative has refused to drive us, despite offering $1500 for everything to fix it.

So, Now I am screwed, totally screwed.

I need the parts, have no way to get to them.

That would be the last thing to try, right? The cam and crank sensors? Would that explain the rattling I have? The popping sound?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01T1R2Aecdg

Why can't anyone give a definitive answer? There are tons of comments on here, but none with fixes except the coil pack.

Do people just fix it, and find out the answer, and never post after it's done?

Why dos it make the popping sound?

I started it up, same noise, same problem, still no CEL at all. My neighbor friend has a code reader-1 and I coul fix it, but no matter how many times I rev it or let it idle, even if it cuts out, or just sits there, no CEL and therefore no code.

[tempfixit]

I assume you did not have the valve covers off when the plenium was off. I still think it has something to do with the valve train, broken push rod or rocker arm loose and tapping against the valve cover creating the noise. Only way to find out is remove valve covers and look.

Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.

[tempfixit]

In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.

If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

I assume you did not have the valve covers off when the plenium was off. I still think it has something to do with the valve train, broken push rod or rocker arm loose and tapping against the valve cover creating the noise. Only way to find out is remove valve covers and look.

Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.

Well, I'll ask you again, I did a valve compression test, it was perfect, so why would that be necessary? If the valve had problems, it would not give good compression, right? I never get an answer to that question, tho my comment makes a lot of sense. The valve compression test would show no compression if the valve system, rocker, or whatever was not working right, right?, and it all came out just fine. 120-130 psi, had to be over 101 psi. But it all was, with each and every valve working just fine.

I did not get the noise when I took off the spark plugs for the compression test, not at all. As my friend, and common sense as I understand it would state, if it was a valve problem, the compression test would have had a dead cylinder, but if it was an electrical problem, the electrical problem would disappear when the electrical stuff like the plugs were disconnected from the engine. It did disappear. That would seem to be some sort of electrical problem. Right? not a valve problem since the cylinder compressio ntest was perfect-only ten pounds of difference between the valves, and nothing else? Plus, the noise disappeared completely?

That would mean , to my understanding, the camshaft or crankcase positioning sensor. I know from reading enough here that the sensors, coil pack, and even the spark plugs can read or seem fine, but the problem disappears once they are all replaced. I seem to be the only person that the problem has continued with, but I didn't replace those two sensors.

Now, valve thing read fine. Why would the valve train or anything else or springs, or anything with the valves be bad, if the valve compression test is fine?

Can anyone answer that?

I cannot see the cp sensor, just the camshaft. It looks dirty, dusty, but hat is it. But it is electronic. It could be dead, shorted, or whatever, just as the coil pack was bad on two cells, and the wires were bad too, since it does not stall anymore, but still makes the popping sound.

Now, am I missing something here? Could the valve train be a total piece of crap, yet still give perfect compression scores, despite not functioning?

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.

If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??

I replaced all of the spark plugs, the coil pack ,and the spark plug wires. With all of the spark plugs disconnected, it no longer makes any noise. Zip, silent. I do not know of the post you mentioned, I'll go back thru them right after I hit submit on this on.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.

If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??

I remember this now. The #5 was actually the number two spark plug. It was broken, and the plug wire was standing up against the engine hood, back when all of this started. We came out one morning, and the passenger door was unlocked ,the hood had been popped, and when I opened the engine compartment, the #2 wire was standing straight up, and the dust was off of it.

That nite I think, the popping started, and the car acted funny. It lost power going up hill, returning home, and then started to stall. Hence our having for two weeks now, to sit at the relative's house, to repair it. It might run enough now to drive, but the popping sound is non-stop, and I can hear a tick sound for each and every plug firing. Or, that is what I think it is.

On youtube, there are 4 Ford videos with people's cars the same, and I posted a link to another video where the guy claimed the engine was dead. I do not knwo at all, but I think that is untrue. But #2 spark plug had a horseshoe crack, and burn brown marks coming out of the crack, as if someone had put lighter fluid in it and started the car.

No one seems o have posted the answer, except about the coil pack. I had improvement, it no longer stalls, but it no longer runs, either. I have to disconnect the battery, because if the car is not running ,it runs out. That would be an electrical problem, right?

Order of spark plugs, from my book and posts from very helpful people here, is

Standing at the front

rear 1-2-3
front 4-5-6.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

I replaced all of the spark plugs, the coil pack ,and the spark plug wires. With all of the spark plugs disconnected, it no longer makes any noise. Zip, silent. I do not know of the post you mentioned, I'll go back thru them right after I hit submit on this on.

A compression test will tell you if the valves are burned or not along with the rings being good or bad. It does not tell you if the valve or valves on a particular clyinder are opening or not, as long as the valves stay closed it will build compression if the piston rings and piston are good.

With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.

By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.