Enginering: German vs. Japanese

[Racer 20]

Now theres a question. Compair any nearly equal cars. Nismo 400R or Nowack N500? The civil Acura NSX or a luxurious Brabus? etc.

I, personally, can't really decide. Both countries are known for their "excessive" tuning of engines. LOL How can 400 and 500 bhp be excessive...

[SolReaver]

There pretty equaly matched but I have to go with Japanese cars. There's more after-market parts for them and there not as expensive

[BRABUS]

It's a tough call. Let me put it this way:

If I had to choose between a BMW 540i or a Lexus GS 430, I'd take the GS 430 instead because in this comparison, I believe the Japanese car wins over the German.

Now if it was between say a Mercedes S500 and a Lexus LS 430, I'd take the S500 instead.

As for comparing the NSX to a Brabus (you didn't specify a model), there is no comparison here if you take the higher end Brabus models such as the E-V12 or the S 7.7S. I think it is unfair to compare tuned cars to factory cars for obvious reasons.

[carmaster]

Yeah I agree with Brabus. But I think germans have a lead over them in higher end luxery and sports cars. But with ecomony and everyday family cars japenese wins. Cause the only german co I can think of that is econmy and low priced is VW.

[Racer 20]

I was just giving examples BRABUS lol. And not many NSX owners leave their cars stock. Plus Greman tuners are considered sperate manufactors. So ha! LOL I could have got an M3 (E46) but I imported an R33 GTR. But I think Greman and Japanese cars are both about equal in enginering. But newer Japanese sadans and family cars etc. are a bit cheap and gimmicy (no I don't think thats a word...). I can believe R&T said the IS300 was better than the 328i though.... lol

[Porsche]

If you think about, not many Japenese cars that I've seen (Any sports cars) remain stock, man german cars are stock. I guess this translates into either, not enough satisfaction from Japanese car owners or a lack of aftermarket parts for german cars. I still like German cars better. They are sexier and not as small, even though the LS 430 is pretty big.

[BRABUS]

Originally posted by Racer 20
I was just giving examples BRABUS lol. And not many NSX owners leave their cars stock.

I still don't see a tuned NSX beating a tuned Mercedes. I mean if you wanted to go all out, the Renntech SL7.4 can reach speeds of up to 200mph! How much tuning would have to be done to an NSX for it to achieve that?

[BRABUS]

Here's what it comes down to basically:

Performance: The Germans have the lead in this category followed by a close second, the Japanese. That's why German performance cars usually cost more than the Japanese.

Exotic Super Cars: No doubt that Italians have this category in the bag folowed by the Germans in second place.

Luxury: Germans and the Brits although the Japanese are not too far behind.

Economy: Japanese for sure and I would put Americans in this category as well. (Civic, Focus, Echo,...etc.)

[Heep]

I like German.

I thought this was a mistake, and maybe it was, but you spelled German "Greman" every time you said it.

[BRABUS]

Originally posted by Heep
I like German.

I thought this was a mistake, and maybe it was, but you spelled German "Greman" every time you said it.

You talkin' to me? I spelled it correctly.

[verboom]

Obviously he wasn't, because you spelled it right. It was Racer20 that spelled it wrong. And I like German better, but I'll probably be more likely to buy a Japanese first, because they are cheaper.

[Racer 20]

LOL greman... SORRY. LOL

Anyway, an NSX can reach 200mph just as easy as a Brabus, BRABUS. But I will agree that German cars are usually more high preformance. But only because of the 276bhp "rule" or whatever... Once they get tired of that "rule" and start using 8 cylinders for there high performance cars insted of maxing the car with turbos they will be about even. I see the Germans and Japanese fighting for "fastest car" or whatever in the next 5 years. And I also argee with you that us Italians make the best over priced, waistful even, exotic beasts with no less than a V8 and usually a V12.

American cars...they have great cars in almost all areas but most lack a certain character that most high preformance, German, Sweedish, Itailian, French, British, Austrailian, and Japanese cars have.

[BRABUS]

Racer 20,

Where are you getting that 200mph spec for the NSX? The top speed for a factory NSX is 162mph. The top notch BRABUS vehicles can do around 200mph.

[Jay!]

This argument brings to mind an important trait of Japanese industry, and underlying Japanese culture.

The greatest strength in Japanese engineering is not really innovation but inspired imitation.

There is pressure in the Japanese cultue not to stray from the concensus of the group, so it is difficult for Japanese engineers to embrace radical new technologies that aren't necessarily proven yet. Instead, they prefer to take and existing technology or concept and adapt it and improve it so that their "copy" will surpass the original.

For example, the Japanese totally copied the idea of a luxury sedan fifteen years ago, and now (in the U.S., at least) Lexus has Mercedes and BMW beat.

Another tendency in Japanese industry is to stick with what they know. A prime example is Honda, which started as a motorcycle manufacturer. Honda's expertise is in engineering small-displacement engines that are ridiculously effficent. Honda has moved recently to try to catch up in the market for high-diplacement engines by putting bigger engines in the CL, TL and RL. The RL, while clearly fitting the mold of a "luxury sedan," is still sadly out-classed by its peers.

One point I'd like to point out, though, is that once the Japanese make something work, they make it work well. They take something they can do well, and beat it into the ground. You nearly have to trick a car salesman into selling you a Toyota or Honda that doesn't have variable valve timing. Hell, the Toyota Echo has variable valve timing. And a variable-flow muffler! On a car the only costs $10,000!

And then there's reliability. Holy crap, guys! Japanese cars never die.

Wow, I wrote a lot!

[BRABUS]

Silver S2000,

Yes I do agree with what you said except for the part about Lexus beating BMW and Mercedes in the US. What data are you going by when you suggested this?