Some of you Honda boys Confuse me...

[911GT2]

Originally posted by hybridsol

What about the 6th gen civic si? Contrary to what you believe honda's produce outstanding power utilizing less cylinder's and less displacement. By utilizing a short stroke and a large bore / (high RPM). Let me familiarize you with honda engineering in comparison to domestic muscle (since you bring up the corvette). Most muscle car engines have been built for torque, rather than horsepower. As a rule, larger bore equals more horsepower, while a longer stroke equals more torque. A long stroke allows the engine to produce power for a longer period of time which equals more torque. Torque is never a bad thing to have but there is a drawback to a long stroke, b/c the piston must travel a longer distance, there is a physical limit to how many RPM's the engine can achieve. Now an engine with a large bore and short stroke will produce less overall torque, but has the ability to reach much higher RPM's, and more HP overall, using a lower displacement. Honda's utilize this technology- having the ability to rev much higher than most other automotives. Meaning that a honda won't accelerate as quickly right off the line as a domestic, but they are able to accelerate for longer in the same gear (9,000 rpm redline vs. a 5,500 rpm redline for example). Just b/c a car has a lower displacement and less cylinders than another car dosen't mean its not a sport car.


I find that honda products are reliable, and more cost efficient than most cars. But I would love to read your list of automotives in which "the money would go much further". Lets say a 4 grand 10 sec car?

my Civic has 355hp at 270lbs of torque and I have minimal problems (I can keep up with an M3 on windy roads). Just b/c the engine is smaller does not necessary mean less power. Although I will agree that RWD has its benefits, but you encounter drawbacks with either.

Some ppl like to modify the exterior of there car, and its not just honda's. I've seen many different automobiles with the same exterior modifications you described. Honestly I don't see a purpose for modifying the exterior either, but for those who do more power to you. Its their car and they can do what they want with it. Who are you to criticize what they think looks good? (Your title alone prevoke's flaming)

I like your style. But spouting off engine-related information that's already general knowledge doesn't say much. Although your facts aren't quite right.

I'll start off assuming you know what torque is. A longer stroke would make the crankshaft lobes (that's not the right word but it'll do) farther from the center right? That gives the engine more torque because the moment arm is greater, not by how long the force is exerted over. Shorter stroke/wider bore engines have less rotational mass and a shorter piston travel, allowing them to inherently spin faster.

And no, the 'sports car' definition is not given by how many cylinders a car has or how many liters it displaces. That's obvious, especially given we're posting on a Honda/Acura board.

And yeah, Civics are reliable and can be quite fast. But barring transmission problems (i.e. replacing 2nd gear synchro) DSMs can also be retardedly fast. With a 16/20g and a MBC they can hit extremely low 1/4 mile times and can launch better than a Civic ever could. And there's no such thing as a 4 grand 10 second car. Don't be ridiculous.

And your car is impressive, I won't try and doubt that. But FWD launches straight up suck. You may be able to keep up with greater cars (the aforementioned M3) on a roll, but you've got no chance at a stoplight. And what exactly do you have done to your car anyways? And while FWD and RWD both have their advantages, power-on oversteer is more controllable than understeer or lift-throttle oversteer. Plus the weight transfer during acceleration aids a RWD car moreso than a FWD car.

And I think it looks outstandingly ridiculous. And the fartcans are a whole other story.

[911GT2]

Originally posted by casperGSR
just wanted to throw this in... I have altezzas, a body kit and yes a wing... I also run 10 lbs daily and once I get my new engine management unit will turn that up to 12 daily and 18 at the track... the first thing I bought for my car were the taillights and as much as anybody wants to hate on them I like the way they look and that's all that matters... personally I don't like the idea of all show and no go and that's why I try to balance it out, unless you'll building the car up to be in big time car shows, but to each there own and I won't hate on someone for doing what they want to their car unless it really is ridiculous like a cardboard wing or something... why do people put body kits and wings on their cars? cause we live in a free damn country and can do whatever we want to our cars... and keep this in mind, most of the cars that you'll see on the road are ongoing projects, maybe they wanted to do up the exterior b4 they work on the engine... you can make the same arguement for audio... just my 2 cents.

But audio is actually enjoyable. It benefits you. I think those decibel-breaking showcars are totally ridiculous though. There's a threshold where you stop doing it for yourself and you start doing it for other people. You personally can't enjoy a bodykit or taillights. You can't enjoy eardrum-bursting decibel levels. You can enjoy more power and good sound.

And you just brought me to my main point in this thread, thank you:

Riceboys do it for other people, real enthusiasts do it for themselves.

[Parker]

Originally posted by 911GT2


You brought up zero points, so you can say absolutely nothing. I am not "owned". Especially not by you.

im not really sure he was trying to say you were owned by him, but by the guy who posted before him talking about the 6th gen civic SI and such. the ricers out there know they are ricers, maybe they just don't want to admit it, and from what i can tell your misunderstanding about "honda boys" stems mostly from this group of people. real ricers do what they do because they have seen someone else do it and think its cool; in essence, a downward spiral is caused by the real ricers and not most of the people who have been verbally(?) assaulted here.

and also, you are quite right about ricers doing it for other ppl. just saw the post.

[911GT2]

Originally posted by Parker


im not really sure he was trying to say you were owned by him, but by the guy who posted before him talking about the 6th gen civic SI and such. the ricers out there know they are ricers, maybe they just don't want to admit it, and from what i can tell your misunderstanding about "honda boys" stems mostly from this group of people. real ricers do what they do because they have seen someone else do it and think its cool; in essence, a downward spiral is caused by the real ricers and not most of the people who have been verbally(?) assaulted here.

and also, you are quite right about ricers doing it for other ppl. just saw the post.

Yeah I know, I just fucking hate it when someone who has something to say makes a point then some dumb motherfucker who has nothing to say just pokes his head in to say OWNED.

And there are riceboys here in spades. The ones who just say "fuck u a hole" or "my civic looks better than any Porsche" or the classic "owned" are the people I'm directing this verbal (or is it textual?) assault.

[-The Stig-]

Alright...

You're explination of stroke/torque is basically what Hybridsol said... You just reworded it. Good job.

And your comment about a $4000 Civic that runs 10s being rediculous. Hard to believe it isnt it? Yes it is possible... I'm sure you'll want proof. So here you be. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...threadid=71493

Now that you've read about it and know that the 'impossible' is possible. I'll show you a pig that can fly. Also I do believe people in hell are now getting shipments of ice water. Oh no... times are changing! Gee whizz! You've... oh gosh.. been proven WRONG!?!

. Seriously though dont be so closed minded, with the right know how and tools you can make anything fast for next to nothing.

Hybridsol has to be one of the smartest guys I know when it comes to Hondas and Imports in general. Only person I trust with my Honda... That is if I had one.

[Cbass]

The limiting factor in the engine speed of domestic V8s is with few exceptions, valvetrain... Still, I routinely see Nascar V8s pulling 9000+ rpm in endurance races, and rarely blowing engines... Those are the 6 liter engiens making roughly 750hp btw.

I'll toss in my two cents here, FWD enjoys few benefits over RWD, the only one of which relates to performance is the lighter weight of the transaxle drivetrain, and lower rotating mass that comes with it.

While an engine that makes 90bhp/liter stock is impressive, it doesn't leave much to easily tune. I have a horribly inefficient 400ci Ford engine for a project car, making about 170hp stock. With $1000 into the engine, it'll make about 300hp. With another $1000, that will be be in teh neighbourhood of 475hp. Only good for 5500rpm of course, but 475hp is 475hp. I can put that in a light, RWD car, and STILL have a near perfect weight distribution.

Oh, and I can do that for less than $4K, and it can still run 10s :P

BTW Hybrid, your grammar is excellent

[-The Stig-]

Originally posted by Cbass
I can put that in a light, RWD car, and STILL have a near perfect weight distribution.

Oh, and I can do that for less than $4K, and it can still run 10s :P

Like a 1st Gen Rx-7.

Easy 10 second potiential with that motor. As you so often state Cbass.

[DblOvrhedCamron]

Originally posted by 911GT2


I like your style. But spouting off engine-related information that's already general knowledge doesn't say much. Although your facts aren't quite right.

I'll start off assuming you know what torque is. A longer stroke would make the crankshaft lobes (that's not the right word but it'll do) farther from the center right? That gives the engine more torque because the moment arm is greater, not by how long the force is exerted over. Shorter stroke/wider bore engines have less rotational mass and a shorter piston travel, allowing them to inherently spin faster.

And no, the 'sports car' definition is not given by how many cylinders a car has or how many liters it displaces. That's obvious, especially given we're posting on a Honda/Acura board.

And yeah, Civics are reliable and can be quite fast. But barring transmission problems (i.e. replacing 2nd gear synchro) DSMs can also be retardedly fast. With a 16/20g and a MBC they can hit extremely low 1/4 mile times and can launch better than a Civic ever could. And there's no such thing as a 4 grand 10 second car. Don't be ridiculous.

And your car is impressive, I won't try and doubt that. But FWD launches straight up suck. You may be able to keep up with greater cars (the aforementioned M3) on a roll, but you've got no chance at a stoplight. And what exactly do you have done to your car anyways? And while FWD and RWD both have their advantages, power-on oversteer is more controllable than understeer or lift-throttle oversteer. Plus the weight transfer during acceleration aids a RWD car moreso than a FWD car.

And I think it looks outstandingly ridiculous. And the fartcans are a whole other story.

Evidentally it wasen't generally known to that guy, Honda's make enourmous amounts of HP per liter.

torque has to do with the diameter of the crankshaft, the bigger the lever arm the more torque, trust us everything hybridsol says is factual info........I fail to see where he made a false statement? I see where you did.
DSM's have shorter gear ratio's than B series Si's Honda's accelerate longer through a gear than most vehicles. DSM's don't do anything better than a civic......
Hybridsol would smoke an M3 off the line, and LSD compensates for most problems. but ofcourse a RWD car thats ten times heavier is going to easier to steer. take the weight off and see how easy it is to control.
I did prove a point in my post, you just made this thread to be an ass. And the ricer movement was created by the fast and the furious!
:finger:

[911GT2]

Originally posted by RedNeck383
Alright...

You're explination of stroke/torque is basically what Hybridsol said... You just reworded it. Good job.

And your comment about a $4000 Civic that runs 10s being rediculous. Hard to believe it isnt it? Yes it is possible... I'm sure you'll want proof. So here you be. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...threadid=71493

Now that you've read about it and know that the 'impossible' is possible. I'll show you a pig that can fly. Also I do believe people in hell are now getting shipments of ice water. Oh no... times are changing! Gee whizz! You've... oh gosh.. been proven WRONG!?!

. Seriously though dont be so closed minded, with the right know how and tools you can make anything fast for next to nothing.

Hybridsol has to be one of the smartest guys I know when it comes to Hondas and Imports in general. Only person I trust with my Honda... That is if I had one.

1) The CRX is (very) impressive, but if it's gotta be trailered in, it doesn't meet the previous expectations of value and reliability mentioned by hybridsol earlier. If it was a daily driver I'd be shocked.

and

2)You want a 10 second car for 4K?? Mustang LX 5.0 notchback. New camshaft, forged crank and stroker kit and you're fuckin flying. Either that or you go the turbo route.

[911GT2]

And for all of you that tried to tell me I'm wrong about torque, here's what hybridsol said:

A long stroke allows the engine to produce power for a longer period of time which equals more torque.

Torque is not dependent on time whatsoever. He may have just misworded it, but as some of you have said (apparently trying to prove me wrong??), torque is dependent on the force given and the length of the moment arm.

Hope that cleared everything up.

[911GT2]

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Evidentally it wasen't generally known to that guy, Honda's make enourmous amounts of HP per liter.

torque has to do with the diameter of the crankshaft, the bigger the lever arm the more torque, trust us everything hybridsol says is factual info........I fail to see where he made a false statement? I see where you did.
DSM's have shorter gear ratio's than B series Si's Honda's accelerate longer through a gear than most vehicles. DSM's don't do anything better than a civic......
Hybridsol would smoke an M3 off the line, and LSD compensates for most problems. but ofcourse a RWD car thats ten times heavier is going to easier to steer. take the weight off and see how easy it is to control.
I did prove a point in my post, you just made this thread to be an ass. And the ricer movement was created by the fast and the furious!
:finger:

The LSD takes care of some traction and torque steer problems, but nothing can take away the disadvantage of the huge weight transfer to the rear wheels (aside from the wheelie cars some of those FWD dragracers use, but that's ridiculous for the street).

That's why a low powered FWD car can lay a good strip, because the weight leaves the drive wheels and makes it much easier to break traction. A low powered RWD car however (88 Firebird V6 as an example, friend used to own one) has a terrible time laying strips because it's low power can't break the wheels free because the weight pressing down (equal to normal force, which is related to frictional force) is actually greater under acceleration.

[Rein]

Cbass: Do you have a link to the site from which that Porsche in your signature came?

[crankwalk 2g]

DSM's don't do anything better than a civic......

2003 Honda civic type-r

Horsepower : 200 hp @ 7400 rpm
Torque : 145 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm
Redline : 8200 rpm
Top speed : 146 mph
0-60 mph : 6.6 sec
0-¼ mile : 15.2 sec @ 96 mph
60-0 braking distance : 120 ft





2003 Lancer Evo 8

Horsepower : 271 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque : 273 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm
Redline : 7000 rpm
Top speed : 156 mph(electronically limited)
0-60 mph : 4.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 13.1 sec @ 105.1 mph
60-0 braking distance : 110 ft


This is just one example. You should think before you say stupid shit!

[DblOvrhedCamron]

Originally posted by 911GT2
And for all of you that tried to tell me I'm wrong about torque, here's what hybridsol said:



Torque is not dependent on time whatsoever. He may have just misworded it, but as some of you have said (apparently trying to prove me wrong??), torque is dependent on the force given and the length of the moment arm.

Hope that cleared everything up.

Well if the arm is taking longer due to a longer stroke, its going to take a longer period of time for the full movement of the arm. I'n turn produceing more power over a longer period of time. I'll simplify (big torque long stroke) better? Everything in this world operates under a clock moron. You find me a place where time stops and I'll side with you.

as for RWD vs FWD its an age old argument and I agree RWD has its advantages, but explain why the crx has less wheel spin that the hemi.....could it be the weight! (hybridsol's delsol runs 11's and would smoke an M3 off the line, alot better than on a twisty road. Infact the M3 should have had the advantage there)

As for DSM's there just not my fortay, stick a turbo on the type R and tell me which car wins the fucking race asshole (which one has stock FI?????). you want to compare the evo to a honda compare it to an NSX.

[DblOvrhedCamron]

side note- WTF is up with all the newbie's mouthing off???? redneck383 cbass (I hate to say it but the porshe nazi knows his shit) and hybridsol are three of the experts on this forum. Keep it up guys, your gonna get gang banged by the AF dream team.....well there's still a few more ppl who haven't shown up, give it time.