Why is Wrx faster then a Gsx?

[LjasonL]

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
Ok, i didnt want this conversation to get technical, all I'm sayin is that thrust to weight. Crank power doesnt mean anything but that its having a tougher time turning its own guts.

You are RIGHT, WRX is faster than a 00 Si Civic.

You are RIGHT, the WRX has better traction when accelerating.

All I was saying is that I have a 00 Si.

It has CTR cams, CAI, Cat-back exhaust (GReddy Evo), ACT Street-Strip Clutch, and 8.5lb lightweight flywheel. I state that it places more power to the ground than the WRX.

Now do a power to weight ratio, and dont patronize me.

I think between my MODDED Si, and STOCK subie, it would be a good race if I didn't win.

I was making a simple point and now I can see its getting to be heated. This is my last reply, if you still think Im wrong, then you will have to live with it.

dude, i'm not trying to be an ass, but you'd get romped on by a stock wrx with a good driver. power and weight is not everything. there is torque, gearing, traction, usable powerband, among a number of other factors. about the only thing you've got on a wrx is the weight and MAYBE whp. your car sounds like its pretty nice, but still...

[C32Bperformance]

Oh well, honestly I don't look down on the Subie at all, I just do it in defense.

I get sick of people trashin Hondas, especially when I prove on the streets time and time again that they deserve more credit.

Really i think nothin bad of 147 whp, I mean shit, my civic had less (stock and stock), so what does that say.

I just figure, if I get the other guys defending their own shit, theyll back off of mine.

I know that AWD is a serious advantage, largest help off the line.

I also know that people trash the shit out of hondas, and truthfully you guys have been lightest on the bashing (which isnt saying a whole lot really)

Im just gettin to the point that I throw out insults w/o restraint. :apoke:

I think Im late to this thinking also, honda drivers are trashed for being stuck up sometimes, but they are driven to that point.

All that stuff you said, useable powerband, gearing, torque, etc, I am including when I say thrust. At any given time, the thrust vs the weight is what makes the car move. This can come from more than just hp, but hp is the main one (being controlled by the powerband) And gearing really doesnt make a car much faster. I've tested that shit, get close gears and shave maybe two tenths in the quarter.

Im not saying its peak power vs peak power. Everyone knows that, otherwise wed have a bunch of Celicas stompin tail.

And as far as my modded Si vs stock subie, I say I would win, you say it would win. Seems pointless.

Thrust arguement: I dont know where I learned this (Im like a book) but I know it.

Torque is a moment of force.

Thrust is force over time.

HP is force over time.

Torque is measured in lb-ft.

Thrust is measured in lb-ft/sec.]

Thrust and hp are measured differently, but the same by technical definition.

Am I wrong? Possibly. I don't remember where I learn things, just make notes in my brain and refer often. lol

So that bout wraps it up.

[flylwsi]

sube has more hp and tq... and awd...

the tq is what matters b/c that's what gets it off the line (so the extra weight doesn't mean as much b/c it has twice the tq of your car)

the awd launch and more hp in general will kill the si...
even a modded one...

it takes quite a bit to get an si under 15 compared to the sube stock under 15 secs in the 1/4.

147 awd whp is very different than fwd whp.

that's the point.

the double tq number means alot though.

[C32Bperformance]

Well before the cams and with a bad primary O2 sensor I ran a 15'4" in the quarter (Factory open-loop fuel timing sucks w/o the sensor so talk about torque holes and shit). So I guess you can say that I'm expecting 14s now with the sensor fixed and the new cams. But again, I could be wrong. Won't know till I run her again.

Oh and, this is just physics. Im not sure if you mean this when you say torque, but torque doesn't do anything but make horsepower at an RPM. Off the line is hp to weight all the same. You just have more hp at a lower rpm. But what if you could rev it up higher? Get a clutch that will bite higher rpms, and get the same jump off the line. This doesn't mean better mid range, mind you, just that (if the tires hold, and AWD definitely helps this) you can acheive the same jump off the line with any car really (excluding AWD vs FWD, a distinct advantage there).

[flylwsi]

i'm not putting you down at all, please realize that...

what kind of power are the cams worth? if they're type r cams, there's not a 1/2 second in them... not even with a new o2 sensor...

i'm not doubting, just casting my projections for now...
i wouldn't mind being proved wrong...

[C32Bperformance]

Well your right, the cams are worth about 15 ponies, not a half second. But combined with a stronger torque curve (new O2), you never know.

It was just runnin real inconsistent and shitty.

[flylwsi]

on tq vs hp...

tq gets you off the line. more tq equals better launch...

tq is a twisting force... so if you've got more, you've got more tq...

hp is what keeps you going fast and more so at high speeds...

which is why if you were to line up with say, a truck... he'd kill you off the line, but you'd walk him like a dog as you speed up...

(rwd vs. fwd, yes, but it still works)...

i know that hp and tq are directly related, but they are still two different entities...

that's why my lude, when stock, would kill new si's off the line... same weight and a tq advantage...

[LjasonL]

also, you know a good driver can run 14.2's all day long in a wrx right?

[C32Bperformance]

Well, I've never seen a stock WRX run a 14'2, but if thats the case then I definitely aint gonna take one. lol

[LjasonL]

find an inexperienced driver and you might have a shot. they tend to run more in the high 14 even low 15 range. they're a lot harder to launch than you think. most cars have problems with too much wheelspin, they have not enough wheelspin. no matter how high you rev it, if you simply drop the clutch or do something similar it will bog down and get off the line slowly. its just something that takes practice, slipping it exactly right to keep the rpm's up.

i've heard of 14.0's stock
the automotive press generally publishes the impreza 2.5rs at like a 16.5, but a good driver in one of those can hit mid 15's. just takes practice, something automotive journalists don't get when they only have the car for a few days or weeks to test.

[C32Bperformance]

lol, like Car and Driver, oh wait, theyre worse.

You know what they said the new RX-8 runs the quarter in? 15.0 flat. They rated the RSX-S faster by a couple tenths. I couldnt believe it.

I mean, 250hp? the car aint THAT heavy. oh well.

[C32Bperformance]

Hey, does the WRX have anykind of traction system that monitors and shifts traction like the skyline?

What i mean is, does it move all the power to the back wheels after you get off the line?

[LjasonL]

the current wrx doesnt, it jsut a basic vicous coupling center and rear differential, and open front. the STi thats coming soon will have the active differentioals though... that car is going to be fast.

[C32Bperformance]

Yeah, I've seen it. Well, pictures and videos of it's debut at I can't remember which show. 300hp they said.

[LjasonL]

yeah, and 300 ft/lbs of torque from 4000 rpm up