STI vs stangGT vs EVO8

[Polygon]

No question, give me the Evo 8. I feel that the Mustang GT just has no chance of competing with the STi or the Evo 8 on the track or on a rally course. I have to pick the Evo 8 over the STi because I don't like all the electronic stability and tracktion control crap it comes with. I like the raw handling of the Evo 8 over the STi, plus I just like how the Evo 8 looks over the other two.

[sonicdream]

My vote goes to the Evo....purely on personal tastes..!

[syr74]

Hey, I'll give kfoote his due as at least he seems to get it. He made a logical (look it up if the meaning is completely mysterious to some) argument as to why he prefers the Subie..... And, I can respect that...all...day...long.

I do not agree with everything he said, especially about the GT possibly being a better track car. (Although I do agree that the Cobra's IRS is compromised....it also happens to work very well, if not always with the finess one might expect) But, I can respect his opinion because he makes sense and knows what he is talking about. His argument has merit and he recognizes a bit of foolishness when it pops up.

I have more dragstrip time than road course time...However, I do have a decent amount of roadcourse time. I have no doubt that the Mustang is a more difficult car to drive well than the Evo or the Subie, and the Cobra would be the most difficult of all.

My point, and kfoote reinforced it for me when he acknowledged that the GT was a bit silly when the Cobra is right there, is that you can narrow a comparo down to an ignorant level and assure that your car, in your circumstances, will win. Hooray for our side.

A buddy of mine has a very, very well done mild MkIII Supra Turbo with about 330 -340hp at the wheels And more torque than most in here would believe. Almost 400lb-ft at 2500 rpm and up. (As an aside I am betting kfoote can tell you how you can make that kind of torque in a small dislacement turbowhen the peak hp # says you shouldn't.

Why??? Because, he knows what he is talking about. But, I am wondering how many of the rest of you guys can. With all his turbos I am bettin' Polygon knows too, just to add him in and give credit where it's due.

Back to the Supra, his car could make more power than it does, but delivery is smooth and the torque curve is unbelieveable for a turbo six. Handling has been addressed too, and the boy has some serious experience on a road course in some very serious cars. Much more than me or most other folks.

Just for fun he autocrosses on the weekends, and the two fastest cars on the track are usually a tweaked ZX3 Focus (Non SVT too) and a late model MR2 (Just as an FYI in response to an earlier post unless you are talking aftermarket or used Toyota does not make a turbo MR2 anymore...never did on this platform)

Frankly, he has a lot of seat time in MkIV Supra's including full on road race cars. And, he will tell you there is no way a MkIV turbo could even match the times of those nearly stock cars, never mind his MkIII. Why? Well, autocross couldn't favor those lithe, little cars much more if it tried....it is simply the nature of the beast. To base an opinion that the MR2 or Focus was a better performance car under those circumstances would be even more laughable thabn the comparo drawn here. But, it makes my point.

Now, I am waiting for someone in here to tell me how much better a performance car the new MR2 is than a MkIV Supra because in a typical Autocross the Supra's weight and size don't cut it.
Nobody would..Why? Because, again it is a stupid assumption on it's face as it is within a very limited environment (a loaded comparo I would say) and the argument just isn't logical.

The Evo and the STi are good cars....in their element on their terms. Just like every other car. But, if the majority of you guys want real respect, from guys who really walk the walk. You cannot run from real competition or comparisons and pick your competition because you think you will win. My Supra buddy doesn't, I don't, and I would bet kfoote and Polygon don't either.

[syr74]

Sorry to double post. But just to make sure people know. I stand by my argument that I feel, overall, the Cobra is the better track car. And, that I think the initial comparo was just loaded and illogical.

[kfoote]

Originally Posted by Polygon

No question, give me the Evo 8. I feel that the Mustang GT just has no chance of competing with the STi or the Evo 8 on the track or on a rally course. I have to pick the Evo 8 over the STi because I don't like all the electronic stability and tracktion control crap it comes with. I like the raw handling of the Evo 8 over the STi, plus I just like how the Evo 8 looks over the other two.

The STi doesn't have traction control. If you're referring to the center differential control, some people claim it's fine in Auto mode. Personally, I have found when you are pushing the limits of the car, very bad things happen in the time the diff is changing between settings. I just leave it in manual mode, and it is a very useful (and easy to adjust) setting if used properly. It's the single biggest deciding factor in why I chose the STi over the EVO VIII.

[poison_ivey]

what are the hp/torque/1/4 mile stats on the evo and sti?

and
i think the '03 cobra imho is just a GT that can do the 1/4 mile faster. i dont think it can keep up.

BUT i do think the 2000 Cobra R can
its designed specifically for track driving- bodykit and wing provides 5x the downforce @ 200 mph. other good preformance cars that would do well would be the steeda Q400(i want that car!) the Saleen's, and Roush. i think that the evo and sti would get there asses handed to them. the cobra r out handles the viper, even though its slower than it.
the only stock american car that can outhandle the cobra r is the corvette.

[OoNismoO]

no dude, the 03 svt cobra has indep rear suspension, reinforced chassis, supercharger giving it 390hp 390tq, and closer steering ratio compared to the gt mustang. the cobra can do the 1/4 around 12.9-13.4, i think the car can keep up, its a fast car in the straights, and the corners. the 03 svt cobra is about as fast as the cobra r in the straights, and corners almost as good.

[youngvr4]

Originally Posted by poison_ivey

the only stock american car that can outhandle the cobra r is the corvette.

ok, and the sti and the evo-8 out handle the corvette.
meaning the cobra r would not hand the two there asses.

times for the sti and the evo-8
evo-8 runs 13.1 273hp and 60-0 in 106ft 0-60 in 4.6
sti runs 13.2 300hp and 60-0 in 111ft 0-60 in 4.9

not to mention the evo-8 destroted the 2003 ford svt cobra coupe.

[kfoote]

[quote=poison_ivey]
i think the '03 cobra imho is just a GT that can do the 1/4 mile faster. i dont think it can keep up.

BUT i do think the 2000 Cobra R can
its designed specifically for track driving- bodykit and wing provides 5x the downforce @ 200 mph.[quote]

That would be great if it could go 200 MPH

The 2000 Cobra R was a good idea gone bad. At 3500 lbs, it's way overweight. It is faster than the standard 2000 Cobra, but was also way overpriced (I think they were something like $55k new), which puts it into the Z06 price range...where it gets killed. It is faster in a straight line than the EVO or STi, but the extra 500+ Lbs is too much to overcome.

[youngvr4]

that was a beautiful comment

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by poison_ivey

the cobra r out handles the viper, even though its slower than it.
the only stock american car that can outhandle the cobra r is the corvette.

Think again, ANY Viper will outhandle ANY Mustang. There are a horde of American built cars that can take down the Cobra R. What a stupid statement. Just to let you know that the heavier the car the worse it will handle.

[zapman]

Originally Posted by syr74

No..let me clarify what some (ahem) are doing. SOME people are trying to make a couiple of over priced, over rated, and under performing rice burners look better than they are. If you want to get stupid about comparos lets compare the new Ford GT to the Evo8 and the STI. Hey, it ain't about price...right? Wonder who would win THAT one?

Apparently Somebody always has to to show up with a reality check for Evo and STi enthusiasts. I just made a point..and a relevant one I might add. If the little sedans cannot take the heat of the competition...well, the kitchen does have a door and they can leave the racin' to the real cars. I figure the hamsters could use a break anyway.

K, then compare a stock GT vs. a stock WRX. How do you explain an under performing rice burner pulling on a gt from a 25 mph roll? not even using the huge awd advatage off the launch.

[Kurtdg19]

The Cobra R was actually a good start for Ford. Its a far better performer than the standard Cobra. I've got a video of a comparision of the Cobra-R, 01 Z06, and the Viper ACR, needless to say the Viper was at the back in the track. Although I wouldn't say that would be the case for the SRT-10, the old ones were quite lacking in many competitive abilities. The Cobra-R stayed with the Z06, it was only 1 sec. slower around the tested track.
Most people weren't eager to buy this car considering the 55k price tag and only 300 being produced. It was a stripped down version of the Cobra, specifically designed for racing. (hense the R in its name) No A/C, power anything, backseat, this car was bare to the bone. But the fact that its on the same body makes it weak and overweight. The CobraR still outweighted the Z06, and Viper by a few hundred. Hopfully the new Ford GT will revive Ford to be a more competitive performer again.

[OoNismoO]

in case some of you didnt know, the 00 mustang cobra has around 320 hp, but i heard that it was actually less than that, and people were complaining, while the 03 has 390 hp.

[Tekone]

Originally Posted by poison_ivey

what are the hp/torque/1/4 mile stats on the evo and sti?

and
i think the '03 cobra imho is just a GT that can do the 1/4 mile faster. i dont think it can keep up.

BUT i do think the 2000 Cobra R can
its designed specifically for track driving- bodykit and wing provides 5x the downforce @ 200 mph. other good preformance cars that would do well would be the steeda Q400(i want that car!) the Saleen's, and Roush. i think that the evo and sti would get there asses handed to them. the cobra r out handles the viper, even though its slower than it.
the only stock american car that can outhandle the cobra r is the corvette.

Quotes like that show why some people have no business even talking about cars at all.