Maybe the first new idea since nitrous...then again, maybe stupid

[911GT2]

Please, keep us informed.

You don't need to give great detail if you're nervous about it but I for one would really like to know some specifics.

[wagonman76]

I had no idea that oxygen injection was so bad for the engine. I would always hear about how cold air intakes were good because the cold air was more oxygen rich. So I had thought about hooking up an old oxygen concentrator (like they use in hospitals, but a cheap old one that you cant trust for a human life anymore) and plumbing it to the intake.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by wagonman76
I had no idea that oxygen injection was so bad for the engine. I would always hear about how cold air intakes were good because the cold air was more oxygen rich.

cold air is not more oxigen rich. It is just more dense therefore you have more air per cubic centimeter and therfore more oxigen too.

[flylwsi]

exactly...

air is approx. 21% oxygen.

say, one cubic foot of warm air (or however it's measured) has 21% oxygen, but there's less air b/c it's all spread out...

if you have one cubic foot of cold air, there's more air, more dense.

like if you put water in an ice tray... the level drops when it freezes because it's becoming more dense...

technically not more water, but you can fit more in if it's cold and compressed... get it?

pure oxygen is highly flammable and would blow up your motor, and burn through the intake manifold because it burns so hot... have fun with that...

[ivymike1031]

Originally posted by flylwsi
like if you put water in an ice tray... the level drops when it freezes because it's becoming more dense...

technically not more water, but you can fit more in if it's cold and compressed... get it?

um, perhaps the right idea... but a really bad example. Ice is less dense than water. That's why ice cubes float.

[Sluttypatton]

Dont mean to sound like a smartass but if I recall science correctly, water is the one exception to the rule...when it freezes it expands, something to do with the crystaline structure. Anyways, Im still working so ill post asap.

[454Casull]

Right. At 4.xx degrees C (I can't remember the exact number OTTOMH), water begins to expand when cooling down.

[Sluttypatton]

I have done some math and I have concluded that this is impossible...Ridiculous pressures aside, it would be impossible to flow enough of this to make any meaningful horsepower increase, and furthermore that horsepower increase would decrease relative to engine speed increase. This is because the maximum flow of the solenoid would produce a miniscule hp increase at low RPM and as the solenoid is already at maximum flow, it could not flow more as engine speed increased, resulting in a smaller power increase as RPM increases [ Sf<=20000ccm, Air*Rpm+Sf=X, X is the total gaseous content of the cylenders, and as Sf(solenoid flow)is <=20000ccm while a 2.0L engine can theoretically use 13104000cc's of air @7000RPM (in a stoic mixture), 20000cc's becomes less than .2% of the total gaseous content, while @1000RPM Sf=1.1%], that may not make sence as it is late and I am tired so I may have left some steps out or got the equation wrong. The next problem is that not enough of it could be stored in a tank to produce even the maximum solenoid flow (which already produces little extra power at maximum flow.) So close yet so far away...the principle does work, and I wondered why noone had ever tried this, now that I spent 3 hours working out the math, I know why. I had a feeling it may be impossible when I started but until I did the math I was not sure. Back to the drawing board!

[GTi-VR6_A3]

Originally posted by Sluttypatton
I have done some math and I have concluded that this is impossible...Ridiculous pressures aside, it would be impossible to flow enough of this to make any meaningful horsepower increase, and furthermore that horsepower increase would decrease relative to engine speed increase. This is because the maximum flow of the solenoid would produce a miniscule hp increase at low RPM and as the solenoid is already at maximum flow, it could not flow more as engine speed increased, resulting in a smaller power increase as RPM increases. The next problem is that not enough of it could be stored in a tank to produce even the maximum solenoid flow (which already produces little extra power at maximum flow.) So close yet so far away...the principle does work, and I wondered why noone had ever tried this, now that I spent 3 hours working out the math, I know why. It seemed so possible but was quickly evident it was not once I worked it out. Back to the drawing board!

so now that it doesnt work can we know what it is. i am hella interested...

-GTi-VR6_A3

[Sluttypatton]

The reason I couldn't say is because it is so simple, but until I did the math I couldn't figure out why it had never been done. Its nothing new, it was just the way that it would be delivered that was new (the delivery system had a lot of benefits over conventional systems, even N20), if you havent geussed it by now it was only air, and that is almost always the only way of increasing power, Im sorry to have got you guys thinking it was some magical compound, but in the end it was only air...Beefcake, you geussed it.

[flylwsi]

yeah, i know the ice thing was pretty lame, but the idea was there...

it kinda made sense, though it was incorrect...

and ice doesn't float in water because it's less dense. it floats b/c you're usually displacing more than enough water for the weigh of the ice...

whatever... oh well...

air injection wouldn't work...

that's why we have forced injection

[FYRHWK1]

well uh, thats kinda what less dense means, theres less of it per X amount of volume, or displacement then water so it floats....

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by FYRHWK1
well uh, thats kinda what less dense means, theres less of it per X amount of volume, or displacement then water so it floats....

you right.


also air induction. man i was already talking to guys isn chemistry majors trying what would be a good catalist for gas oxidation. Ah well maybe all that effort will give me some new ideea....like trinitroglicerin....yeah that should do the trick

[pimpclipse]

Lol how do you contridict what u say in two sentences and not realize it?

[castovicini]

Model airplane fuel, nitromethane, ether or propylene oxide. By the way, Propane is about 90 octane and 5 Cetane, disels use it to get the cylinders warmed up like ether.