Should We Wait Till North Korea Has Nuclear Weapons Before We Do Something?

[taranaki]

Originally posted by GTStang
The US has the military that has the ability to take over the world. We have not done either one, what other country with such power as the US in history has not tried? Roman Empire?British Imperialism? Nazi Germany? I think it's pretty dam good and reasonable leadership.
We lost.... lol,ok No country is ever going to be a friggin Utopia but compare us to the world... hell I don't think we are doing pretty dam shabby.
If it wasn't for us and all our military spending we'd all be speaking Russian. USSR fell and not everyone is forced to speak English. Reason why is a government that works.
Wether you like it or not the US is the number one country. Not just in military power. Economics too "When the US gets a cold so does the World" old economics term. So if we have such lousy and bad leaders how did we end up in the position we are... Pure luck?
You want to try to give us a Bully image BS! When we have the power to do almost anything we want and we don't. I never know a Bully too do that

you are entitled to your own opinion,however ill-founded it may be.The U.S has a long history of menacing smalller nations since the SecondWorld war.It is a supreme arrogance to suggest that the U.S. saved the world from the Russians,they could have destroyed your country in a day ,but chose not to.The cold war only worked because of the mutually assured destruction.Saddam has no weapons capable of harming the U.S.,and refuses to surrender in the face of sanctions,which only serve to harm civilians.Naturally,the U.S has the upper hand and is desperate for world approval to use it.Fortunately,the rest of the world will not condone such overbearing and bullying tactics.Bush doesn't have the balls to back up his statements yet.

[GTStang]

Ill-founded... Riteeeeee

If the US did not have it's nuclear stockpile to make MAD work, who else would have taken our place? The french..... yea exactly so we did help keep the rest of you from speaking Russian. Saint Saddam!!!! here to protect his civilians from mean bad sanctions. Makes sense he wants them in good health when he tortues them it makes it funner.


Saddam for Nobel Peace Price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[taranaki]

Well,that post was even dumber than the last....do call back if you ever have a valid point to make.

[Darth Cypher]

I think he was refering to if you would rather the US have the upper hand or someone else. Someone who you would not want to set foot the US, Canada, whatever.

[GTStang]

Obviously the combination of serious/satirical comments were missed by some.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by GTStang
Obviously the combination of serious/satirical comments were missed by some.

serious/satirical? don't flatter yourself.fatuous and sarcastic would be closer to the truth.I get thoroughly sick and tired of loudmouths telling me that"if it wasn't for America,we'd all be speaking Russian/German/Japanese,etc,etc,blah,blah".The U.S.was late to support its allies in both WW1 AND WW2 and now it bleats because the rest of the world doesn't follow its bizzare prejudices and jump into place behind the stormtroopers?Give us a break.Frankly,we view the prospect of surrendering our independence to Bush with just as much distaste.

[dolla_bill0913]

Lets stay on topic, this thread is to talk about North Korea, NOT Iraq and Saddam. There are plenty of other threads for that.

[GTi-VR6_A3]

Originally posted by taranaki

The U.S.was late to support its allies in both WW1 AND WW2 and now it bleats because the rest of the world doesn't follow its bizzare prejudices and jump into place behind the stormtroopers?

could you please elaborate on what you mean by this statement. so first you are saying that we watied too long to act beacause we watited until they actually did threaten us. then you are saying we area acting too early??? im confused

-GTi-VR6_A3

[Cbass]

Originally posted by dolla_bill0913
Remember how this all started. North Korea backed out of a agreement, that stated they wouldnt make nuclear weapons. How long have we been protecting south korea from north korea and now neither of them give us any respect. We give them food, we help their economy, and they just turn their back on us when we only ask them to not make any nuclear weapons. If you are a peaceful country, you are friends with other countries and help them out. North Korea has turned their backs on us and have made threats towards the united states now and in the past. Why should we try to negociate, when it is plain to see they dont care about what we ask them to do. If they dont want to figure out a peaceful way to make both sides happy, why should we waste our time trying. If they want more nuclear weapons, I say we give them more nuclear weapons by droping one on them.

That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have read in my time in this forum.

This all started when North Korea was building a nuclear reactor, for ELECTRICITY, which they have little infrastructure to create, and due to previously poor relations with their South Korean neighbours, could not buy from them. The US cut a deal where they would build them 2 nuclear reactors, provided that UN inspectors oversaw the uranium, so it would not be possible for them to make a nuclear weapon.

The US never made good on it's promise, and the North Koreans are tired of waiting! There is no threat to the US, or Bush would be shitting his pants, and assembling a UN action against North Korea.

Despite US claims, this is not a "bargaining chip", this is a nation wanting cost effective power, that is not willing to wait another 7 years for the US to make good on it's promise.

You seem to think that the US is some great country that goes around the world giving other countries massive quantities of aid and assistance. The US gives the least foreign aid of any western nation, and the US is by far the richest. When non Americans hear about how generous and giving the US is from uninformed people such as yourself, it is not exactly flattering, and reflects badly on your country, and yourself.

[Cbass]

Originally posted by taranaki


serious/satirical? don't flatter yourself.fatuous and sarcastic would be closer to the truth.I get thoroughly sick and tired of loudmouths telling me that"if it wasn't for America,we'd all be speaking Russian/German/Japanese,etc,etc,blah,blah".The U.S.was late to support its allies in both WW1 AND WW2 and now it bleats because the rest of the world doesn't follow its bizzare prejudices and jump into place behind the stormtroopers?Give us a break.Frankly,we view the prospect of surrendering our independence to Bush with just as much distaste.

I agree completely. Most Americans seem to think their country is incredibly generous and giving to all these other nations, who only turn around and complain. The truth is, the US gives the least foreign aid per capita of any western nation, including Mexico, and then Americans use that as an excuse to be offended when other nations don't do what the US wants them to.

Another common misconception is that the US has singlehandedly bailed every one of it's allies out of grave peril at one time or another. The US usually doesn't get involved in anything unless US interests are at stake, and then they go full out to do whatever would be best for the corporations. If that means using Contra terrorists in Nicaragua, then that's what the US does. If that means attacking a sovereign nation for their natural resources, then that's what the US does. Simple as that.

[dolla_bill0913]

Originally posted by Cbass


That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have read in my time in this forum.

This all started when North Korea was building a nuclear reactor, for ELECTRICITY, which they have little infrastructure to create, and due to previously poor relations with their South Korean neighbours, could not buy from them. The US cut a deal where they would build them 2 nuclear reactors, provided that UN inspectors oversaw the uranium, so it would not be possible for them to make a nuclear weapon.

The US never made good on it's promise, and the North Koreans are tired of waiting! There is no threat to the US, or Bush would be shitting his pants, and assembling a UN action against North Korea.

Despite US claims, this is not a "bargaining chip", this is a nation wanting cost effective power, that is not willing to wait another 7 years for the US to make good on it's promise.

You seem to think that the US is some great country that goes around the world giving other countries massive quantities of aid and assistance. The US gives the least foreign aid of any western nation, and the US is by far the richest. When non Americans hear about how generous and giving the US is from uninformed people such as yourself, it is not exactly flattering, and reflects badly on your country, and yourself.

I dont think a country that was threatened by another would have good relations with them. Do you remember what country was protecting South Korea from North Korea when they wanted to take them over. OOOhhhh yes it was the U.S., wait that must be wrong because they dont help anyone. You ever think of the fact that maybe instead of just throwing money around to every country that asks for it, there is a better way. Like going into that country and helping them fix their problem and get them back on there feet, so they can support themselves. But, this can only happen if the country that is asking for the help, allows for the help to be given to them. North Korea has always been on not so good terms with the U.S, but it is their own fault because they do nothing to improve relations. We give them food/aid/etc., and what do they do for the US?

[Darth Cypher]

Yes, WE DO help out other countries. Japan, S. Korea, Germany. We even tried to help out Somalia, the Balkans. Which I might add that we were helping MUSLIMS (Balkans). People always want to say that we are doing it for resources. Please, we didn't get any extra oil or any sort of discount after the Gulf War. I don't know exactly how much money we give to other nations but what other nations have helped rebuild others to be self sufficient? (Crickets chirping) There might be some but not many.

So what if we give less per capita? Who provides the most troops and has to carry out the brunt of the wo-data; name="submit"

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[Cbass]

Korea was a UN action, AGAIN. A COALITION, not the US alone. Sure the US provided more troops than any one other nation, but by no means did the US singlehandedly save the South Koreans.

The level of aid that the US provides compared to the wealth they possess is sickening. The US provided $15 billion last year in foreign aid, and most of that was supplying weaons. A full third of that figure was supporting Israel alone, a wealthy nation with no need for aid. In Canada, we are not much better, at 2.2 billion a year, but the US is a country 10 times our population, and is economicly much stronger. Canada, a smaller, poorer nation, gives 0.5% of our GNP as foreign aid. The US figure is something closer to .08%, and most of that is again, giving weapons to countries like Israel. Please stop acting as if the US is some benevolent country that goes around supporting the world, it's quite disheartening.

http://home.pacbell.net/vaughn44/pol-1.for_aid.3.pdf

Darth, you ask what other nations have "rebuilt" others to be self sufficient? How about the USSR, the Peoples Republic of China, Nazi Germany, the British Empire... That's what imperial powers do, by the way. It took decades for Germany and Japan to win independence from the US policies entrenched in their governments by the conquering US. Japan is still economically dependent on the US, and the only thing that keeps them safe from American bullying is that the US is technologically dependent on Japan.

A viewpoint you should really consider is that the US does not play fair. This is seriously NOT propaganda thrown at me by France and Iraq, this is a conclusion that myself, and countless others around the world, even in the US, have drawn based on what your country does.

Do you know much about the softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the US? After investing billions in our softwood lumber industry, we have created the best infrastructure for SWL in the world. Simply put, we produce the highest quality product, and market it at a price that can't be beaten. Our main trade partners are Japan and the US. Now Japan is free to tax and tarriff our lumber as they please, but the US entered the NAFTA trade treaty with Canada and Mexico. This means that they can't tax our imports, and we can't tax theirs. The US lumber industry has a strong lobby in Washington, and they managed to get the US to impose an illegal 14% tarriff on our lumber. When Canada argued this was an illegal trade practice, and would have drastic effects on the Canadian economy, the US increased it to 28%. Softwood lumber is the single largest export of my province, and the US housing market was our biggest customer.

For years we have been told we are the closest ally of the US, their closest friends, they consider us family etc. The US sees a market segment taking small losses, because we offer a superior product at a lower cost, so they impose illegal trade sanctions and cripple the economy of British Columbia, a province the size of Texas and California combined.

That rant aside, the point is, the US doesn't play fair, and is willing to wound it's closest allies for a minor benefit to it's corporations. They're willing to commit outright murder for other causes, like United Fruit.

[Darth Cypher]

Ok, sorry about your SWL business but really, tell me one country that does play fair. Besides, it's not like we haven't been punked before. Again, I know the US is not perfect. I know we have done shady things (that usually have a way of getting thrown back in our face) but don't you think that some of it is a little blown out of proportion (talking in general, not about the SWL incident)?

I know we are not the only country to rebuild another one. What I was trying to say was that we do not take over countries like a lot of people are talking about.

Israel might be wealthy but so are some of our other alli----------------7d35a2215028a--
es that we help out. Besides, Israel has to put up with tons of terrorist attacks and has about every other Arab nation gunning for them.

We do support the whole world because we are asked for help a lot. People don't like it when the US polices the world. But since we became the only superpower, we reluctantly fell into that role. You said we are the wealthiest nation (or at least up there) so naturally that role would fall to such a nation, would it not?

Ok, this has gotten off topic. But the point is I know that the US is not perfect. My arguments are that it is not as evil as it is made out to be either. We ALL have our black marks. That's right, all of us.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


could you please elaborate on what you mean by this statement. so first you are saying that we watied too long to act beacause we watited until they actually did threaten us. then you are saying we area acting too early??? im confused

-GTi-VR6_A3

I am saying that historically,the U.S. has only joined its allies in war once it has been attacked itself[Luisitania,Pearl Harbor.When the Nazis were marching into France,and the british were being blown into the sea at Dunkirk,the U.S. attitude was,"not our war,don't involve us".

Now, we have George Bush saddling up to fight shadows in the Middle East,and he expects his allies to drop in quick smart without question and toe the Bush line of thinking?Well the rest of the world thinks that pre-emptive strikes as a tool of defence are against international law and morally bankrupt.The evidence presented so far cannot justify a full-scale U.N. operation,getting rid of Saddam Hussein is not in itself sufficient reason to invade Iraq.The same argument applies to this thread topic.The Koreans 'may' be developing a nuclear capability.This 'may' result in them being able to build nuclear weapons.They 'may' at some stage threaten people with them.

Sorry,but it is all speculation and worst-case scenario material from Bush.If he had sufficient evidence that there was a clear and present danger to the security of the U.S. from another nation,his allies would listen.Instead,he has decided to stir up a hornets' nest because a small group of extremists stung him in the ass.