Domestic Vs. Imports

[TerminalVelocity]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


As for the "new" Metro ITS THE SAME FUCKING CAR with a different badge and a facelift

how come the crash test results are better then? Oh, sheet metal styling changes affects it I see

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

But you are also picking on only one car- you are constantly saying Civic, Civic , CIVIC!!!!!!! for chrissake- A non-GTR Skyline, Mitsi Evo III or 300ZX TT would eat your stupid Yank Tank alive- for near the same price (At least in NZ)

A non-GTR Skyline would cost 60,000+ out here, far more than a 03 cobra. Same with the EVO III, and the 300ZXTT is a very very expensive car as well, MY CAR COSTS $3 GENIUS! Obviously a car which costs 57 grand more will beat me. Yes, and a Rocket could beat your imports so there. My, what a great argument. Oh, and when the hell did I talk of a Civic in this topic?

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

I will step in for my bro Jimmy here as well- Don't you dare say he has never owned a car- he has owned 18 in his 12 years of driving- included in that is a 67 (I think) Mustang- he had to sell it because the maintenence was costing him a fortune- Of course he can't speak highly enough of his European, Australian and Japanese Ford(s)- I will quite happily admit to you that out of all the new cars on sale in the US, Europe, NZ/Aussie, Korea and Japan- that the new Mustang has the worst interior quality of all- It was a cost-cutting exercise- hence they make more- screw the kwality

My mustang was a pos, and I kept it running rather well for the cost of gas and oil. It had been rotting for 20 years after being rallyed for 20 and driven the rest of the time from 1967. 3 speed manaual 200ci strait 6. It finally died after 200,000 miles of very very hard driving including several trips cross country. Ford has a very excelent record of quality, granted some people dont like their styling, such as yourself, THAT DOSENT MAKE IT A BAD CAR. If you wanna spew crap at me, spew facts, if you went to a court or argument class your opinion is worth spit, facts are king. Same here, you wont do anything but make me laugh without facts.

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
just for the record- most of the Mustangs I saw in Cali were new ones- I saw about 3 80's models- that is it.........

Where were you? In the middle of the desert? If you go to carson, the 4 lane street closest to me, and sit for 20 min, you will see at least 5 80's mustangs, and 3 to 4 pre 73 mustangs. You drive around my neighborhood and you will see a mint condition 73 mach 1, good condition 69 mach 1, good conditon 67 289HP, show condition 65 289, good conditon 69 next to a good conditon 71, a decent shape 72 and many many more. See, I LIVE out here, you spent a short time out here.

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
I used to like Domestic V8's like Camaros, Mustangs and Firebirds- but rednecks like yourself and your n00b buddy who started this thread have turned me into a Japanese/Euro car man [/b]

I like jap/Euro cars but ignorant wanna-bees like yourself have made me someone who likes all cars and uses facts instead of random opinions.

[Spec2 Girl]

OK. This is an example of why we are sick and tired of these sorts of threads. I have yet to see an Import vs Domestic thread that actually stays civil.

Can’t we all just acknowledge that there are good and bad on both sides and be done with it? We all post on AF for one reason. We all love cars. A true car enthusiast can appreciate cars of many types.

Seeing as this thread is in stress release I will leave it open for the time being. Please try and be civil to one another or it will be closed.

[TerminalVelocity]

works for me....I got nothing else to say though

[boingo82]

TerminalVelocity:
First, I didn't mean to attack Ford specifically. I used the Focus as an example of particularly poor reliability because of its large serious-recall history (such as the throttle sticking in the wide-open position, rear wheels detaching, airbag deploying prematurely, etc.) because the original poster owned a Ford and appeared to think it was the make that every American should own. I don't personally have anything against Ford specifically, but it has never produced a car that I was particularly impressed with.

You claim I gave "false info". Where? I referred to many domestics having poor crash-test results, which is true. Many Imports also have poor crash-tests, but they are better on average, and one can certainly research the matter before purchasing. You made me appear to be a liar by posting links to only the "Good" or "Acceptable" crash-test results. Let me even the field a little:
F-150 crash test result Chevrolet Astro result Ford Contour result

In fairness I will mention that the Ford Escort that he owns was built on a shared platform with the Mazda Protege/323, and it has above-average reliability. Interestingly, the powerplant is all Mazda electronics, and the car itself was Mazda-built and then imported. Guess who drives an import, Swamack?

I never said he didn't have a right to his opinions. He can purchase and drive whatever kind of car appeals most to him and his needs. However, it is simply ludicrious that he should tell me what kind of car to drive based only on which country I reside in.

It's funny that you would attack me simply for defending my opinion. I know you probably are the recipient of a lot of anti-domestic flack, and it's sad that people can be that petty (I like some domestics myself) but sometimes they are. But that's not a good excuse to jump on my back simply because I pointed out the flaws in his argument.

As for Ford's reliability, I am basing that statement on two things:

#1. The new Focus, which currently has 9 very serious safety recalls out. This is unfortunate, as besides the quality issues it is a well designed, fun-to-drive, good-crashing car. (Though I still think it's ugly.)
#2. ConsumerReports.com's used cars to avoid list, attached as a .txt file at the end of this post. I can't link you to the page itself, as it's on a subscribers-only part of the site.

Granted Ford has made some very good cars, and some very bad cars like any other manufacturer. I simply found that another manufacturer made cars that met my needs better, and so that's who I chose to buy from.

I see that in your opinion of "Stress Release", anyone can come in here and post anything they want, as long as you agree with it. And heaven forbid, if someone is to come in and have another opinion, you jump all over them, regardless of what facts are presented.

Well, good day to you, sir.

Originally posted by TerminalVelocity




Crash test results
Example two
Example three
Example four

Granted, they arnt all A+, but there are extremly few bad marks, with mostly good marks. Granted most give somewhat poor results to the 2 door pasenger side, if you do reasearch youll find its only minor injury, and I dont know about you but being t-boned and walking away with a brused rib or no injurty sounds good to me.

I hate to make you eat your words but ya know, attacking Ford, kinda upsets me.

He has the right to have his opinions, and this is stress release, he dosent like imports and this is his way of venting, so back off I say. Granted he did kinda ask for it by telling you to be ashamed of yourself, perhaps you should be ashamed of yourself for giving false info.

And if i'm not mistaken not only did he say METRO, (yes, I do know you pointed that out) but its not a import remake like the prizim. Its a GM and thats that.

But you know what, i'm sure your very self-righteous and he should be shamed

[Ssom]

[quote]Originally posted by TerminalVelocity
[b]

how come the crash test results are better then? Oh, sheet metal styling changes affects it I see

Well- perhaps when they facelifted it the engineers probably strengthened the structure- Thats what happened with the Ford Fiesta adn VW Polo in the Euro NCAP- the solution- The Metro is still an import

A non-GTR Skyline would cost 60,000+ out here, far more than a 03 cobra. Same with the EVO III, and the 300ZXTT is a very very expensive car as well, MY CAR COSTS $3 GENIUS! Obviously a car which costs 57 grand more will beat me. Yes, and a Rocket could beat your imports so there. My, what a great argument. Oh, and when the hell did I talk of a Civic in this topic?

Sucks to be you then- Domestics are ludicrously over-priced here, high-performance Imports are dirt-cheap

My mustang was a pos, and I kept it running rather well for the cost of gas and oil. It had been rotting for 20 years after being rallyed for 20 and driven the rest of the time from 1967. 3 speed manaual 200ci strait 6. It finally died after 200,000 miles of very very hard driving including several trips cross country. Ford has a very excelent record of quality, granted some people dont like their styling, such as yourself, THAT DOSENT MAKE IT A BAD CAR. If you wanna spew crap at me, spew facts, if you went to a court or argument class your opinion is worth spit, facts are king. Same here, you wont do anything but make me laugh without facts.

Ford make reliable trucks- However cars like the Focus, Taurus, Crown Victoria and even Mustang- let the side down- it is well documented of the Focus' recalls (Boingo mentioned all that)- The Taurus has electrical problems by the bucket-loads and the earlier ones had an ability to spontaneously combust- Plus I talked to a guy at a mechanics shopwho says that Crown Victorias are thier financial backbone- because there are so many of them- and so many are dogs- As far as I know- the new 4.6 Pushrod is quite reliable- and the Windsor was above-average.

Where were you? In the middle of the desert? If you go to carson, the 4 lane street closest to me, and sit for 20 min, you will see at least 5 80's mustangs, and 3 to 4 pre 73 mustangs. You drive around my neighborhood and you will see a mint condition 73 mach 1, good condition 69 mach 1, good conditon 67 289HP, show condition 65 289, good conditon 69 next to a good conditon 71, a decent shape 72 and many many more. See, I LIVE out here, you spent a short time out here.

LA- I did a grand tour as well, San Fransisco and Oakland- I would say that 75% were the 99- facelifts, 22% were 94-99 models- I saw like 3 80's ones and a few restored classics in Beverly Hills





And as for you calling me a wnanabe- OK.................A wannabe.........How in hell am I a wannabe????- I drive a bone-stock 12 Year old VW- I have never driven it violently- I drive like a NORMAL SANE person

[TerminalVelocity]

time to get very long winded

Originally posted by boingo82
First, I didn't mean to attack Ford specifically. I used the Focus as an example of particularly poor reliability because of its large serious-recall history (such as the throttle sticking in the wide-open position, rear wheels detaching, airbag deploying prematurely, etc.) because the original poster owned a Ford and appeared to think it was the make that every American should own. I don't personally have anything against Ford specifically, but it has never produced a car that I was particularly impressed with.

Well, your opinion is fine, but could you back up that recall history with facts? I'd love to see it. (no, not being sarcastic)

You claim I gave "false info". Where? I referred to many domestics having poor crash-test results, which is true. Many Imports also have poor crash-tests, but they are better on average, and one can certainly research the matter before purchasing. You made me appear to be a liar by posting links to only the "Good" or "Acceptable" crash-test results. Let me even the field a little:
F-150 crash test result Chevrolet Astro result Ford Contour result

You can have your poor crash-test results, poor reliability (Focus, anyone?) but I am sticking with a brand that is proven reliable, and I drive Consumer Reports' #1 recommended used car. Incidentally, though this car has not been crash-tested in the US (too few sold), it is recommended by Europe's #1 insurance co. as one of their top-10 safest family sedans.

You implyed crash resluts were poor on the focous, so I defended it with multiple sites to show corresponding results. Thank you for showing me I dont want to be in a Astrovan...I dont own one but its intresting to know.

On average being better isnt something I would say thought for the Import crash results, I now give examples.
]DAEWOO LEGANZA
HONDA ODYSSEY ISUZU RODEO HYUNDAI ELANTRA INFINITI I30 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA/GOLF VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT

In fairness I will mention that the Ford Escort that he owns was built on a shared platform with the Mazda Protege/323, and it has above-average reliability. Interestingly, the powerplant is all Mazda electronics, and the car itself was Mazda-built and then imported. Guess who drives an import, Swamack?

Sucks to be him?

id he didn't have a right to his opinions. He can purchase and drive whatever kind of car appeals most to him and his needs. However, it is simply ludicrious that he should tell me what kind of car to drive based only on which country I reside in.

Well, you had no need to attack him back, even so much as down to his spelling.

Ohhh, you got me, I am so ashemed now, whatever that means.

If you knew diddly about "imports" you would know that....

maby to you sarcasm is a friendly guesture, but to me your choice of words seems rather inflamatory.

It's funny that you would attack me simply for defending my opinion. I know you probably are the recipient of a lot of anti-domestic flack, and it's sad that people can be that petty (I like some domestics myself) but sometimes they are. But that's not a good excuse to jump on my back simply because I pointed out the flaws in his argument.

Yes, I do get alot of flack from such people as Moss, and I must say from how you layed out this argument, you have gained some respect from me. Now in this case it was how you worded your argument, or flaw finding of his opinion. If you simply used facts without spicing it up with sarcasm and using a ford, I no doubt wouldnt have said a thing. Even if you simply used a ford product I wouldnt argue, I would let it go.

As for Ford's reliability, I am basing that statement on two things:

#1. The new Focus, which currently has 9 very serious safety recalls out. This is unfortunate, as besides the quality issues it is a well designed, fun-to-drive, good-crashing car. (Though I still think it's ugly.)

As stated above I would defentally love to see these recalls.

#2. ConsumerReports.com's used cars to avoid list, attached as a .txt file at the end of this post. I can't link you to the page itself, as it's on a subscribers-only part of the site.

It didnt work for me, I would like to see it though and if you pm me i'll give you my e-mail addy.

Granted Ford has made some very good cars, and some very bad cars like any other manufacturer. I simply found that another manufacturer made cars that met my needs better, and so that's who I chose to buy from.

My parents own a geo prizim, and lemme tell you, I love that car, its indistructable and it seems to run forever. A testimant to Toyota to be sure. I like my ford, granted there are many things about it I scream "STUPID FORD!" about, but I have with all the cars I have worked on at one time or another. Volvo, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, GMC, Dodge, Olds, Honda, Delorian, to name a few.

I see that in your opinion of "Stress Release", anyone can come in here and post anything they want, as long as you agree with it. And heaven forbid, if someone is to come in and have another opinion, you jump all over them, regardless of what facts are presented.

Well, good day to you, sir.

Aside from the last bit of sarcasm, I liked this post of yours even thought it dissagrees with many of my own opinions. Facts wernt really given in your last post, I felt. Not enough to make up for the overall tone of it, but this post being quite different.

And to you I finally say good night, miss

[TerminalVelocity]

First, I dont know why I am gracing this with a reply

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


LA- I did a grand tour as well, San Fransisco and Oakland- I would say that 75% were the 99- facelifts, 22% were 94-99 models- I saw like 3 80's ones and a few restored classics in Beverly Hills

Well, sorry you had such an uneventfull time seeing them. If you did that many areas you should have seen many many classics. Maby you dont know what the look like...

A few to look at

Sucks to be you then- Domestics are ludicrously over-priced here, high-performance Imports are dirt-cheap

hahaha, funny. Sucks to be me? Two words for you to start out with
Corvette
Cobra

Now to let you know, I'd much rather have eather of those over your slow Skyline :hehe: *no offence spec2, I love skylines but I love my muscle, and i'm making a point here*

R33 specifications as tested by Car and Driver
December 1995


Horsepower 276 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 271 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Acceleration

0-40 mph 2.7
0-60 mph 5.3
0-80 mph 9.1
0-100 mph 12.9

0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 14.0 @ 104 mph

Braking

From 70 mph 159 ft

Handling

300 ft skidpad 0.94 g

Interior Noise

Idle in neutral 47 dBA
Full throttle acceleration 81 dBA
70 mph cruising 72 dBA
70 mph coasting 71 dBA

R34 Specifications as tested by Road and Track
February 1999

Horsepower 277 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 293 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Acceleration

0-40 mph 2.7
0-60 mph 5.2
0-80 mph 8.7
0-100 mph 13.0

0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.7 @ 103.5 mph

Braking

From 60 mph 120 ft
From 80 mph 204 ft

Handling

200 ft skidpad 0.89 g
700 ft slalom 60.8 mph

Fuel Economy

Normal Driving 22.8 mpg

Interior Noise

Idle in neutral 52 dBA
Maximum 1st gear 78 dBA
70 mph 76 dBA

CORVETTE Z06
Shown above: starting at $51,155*

THE QUICKEST CORVETTE YET.
Z06 stormed onto the scene two years ago, and enthusiasts still can’t get enough of this radical Corvette. 405 horsepower. Zero-to-60 in under four seconds. Lateral acceleration of 1 g. And a top speed that has exceeded over 170 mph on a test track.

(from chevy)

oh, and to let you know the quatermile time is 12.6 seconds @ 114 mph

Cobra
too lazy to type out cobra stats
and heres the stats for it with est quartermile times

(ironically I found this on google and its my own thread)

Here ya go

Ford make reliable trucks- However cars like the Focus, Taurus, Crown Victoria and even Mustang- let the side down- it is well documented of the Focus' recalls (Boingo mentioned all that)- The Taurus has electrical problems by the bucket-loads and the earlier ones had an ability to spontaneously combust- Plus I talked to a guy at a mechanics shopwho says that Crown Victorias are thier financial backbone- because there are so many of them- and so many are dogs- As far as I know- the new 4.6 Pushrod is quite reliable- and the Windsor was above-average.

Acutally, Ford's trucks are the weak link in the chain, poor crash results *as boingo pointed out* and cheep interior make them below par. But the Crown Vic is the car used by police forces across america due to 1 its one of the last fullsize vehicles, 2 its relyalability. Every car maker has had problems with cars, I havent heard of any Taurus's 'sploding so if your going to say that give me facts. And as I said, vics are damn near invincible, i've rallyed them, and I know some people who repair them for the Sherrifs out here, they hold up extremly well against the abuse. And to let you know there is no OHV 4.6, the modular 4.6 comes as SOHC *trucks and base level mustangs/crown vics, mid 90's t-birds* and DOHC *cobra, no more needed to say* Ford's 5.0 is the -ONLY- real rival for the 350, its lack of cubes is made up for by being placed in generally lighter vehicles. Can you name me a more reylable performance engine than the 350? I doubt it, but please do if you can.

And as for you calling me a wnanabe- OK.................A wannabe.........How in hell am I a wannabe????- I drive a bone-stock 12 Year old VW- I have never driven it violently- I drive like a NORMAL SANE person

By your lack of facts, your simply getting upset and stating your opinion as though I'm sposto bow down to it. You calling me a redneck for driving a domestic and defending my brand of cars.

Violently...ok...so youve never run anyone over...good job. A normal sane person...ok...well i'm glad i'm one of those insane fools, must explain why i'm going to join the police force in 10 months and counting.

[swamack]

Hey TerminalVelocity, I'm now a member of the Evil Kitty Club.

[Spec2 Girl]

Originally posted by TerminalVelocity
Now to let you know, I'd much rather have eather of those over your slow Skyline *no offence spec2, I love skylines but I love my muscle, and i'm making a point here*

No offence taken. I just find it interesting that you think a 0-60 of 5.3 seconds is slow. :huh:

[boingo82]

Originally posted by TerminalVelocity
...
On average being better isnt something I would say thought for the Import crash results, I now give examples.
]DAEWOO LEGANZA
HONDA ODYSSEY ISUZU RODEO HYUNDAI ELANTRA INFINITI I30 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA/GOLF VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT
OK

Aww, geez, don't lump my Infiniti in with Daewoos or Hyundais. Gaack. And I know the 1995-1996 Maxima/I30 had a poor crash-test, in all fairness they improved the structure for 1997 and up. When I said Imports I meant your stereotypical Japanese car, not Korean or German. So I guess I should be more careful of my words.

Well, you had no need to attack him back, even so much as down to his spelling.

I will absolutely make fun of anyone's spelling I want to. Anyone who is 14 (the min. age for this site) should be able to spell and use proper grammar. As they are free to choose not to, I am free to mock them. Sorry, but I work at a newspaper, and spelling errors rub me the wrong way, as they should. Just ask Moondog.
And yes, I am by nature a very sarcastic person. Sorry, but I am like that in real life too, not just in the forums, because I usually don't say anything unless I feel VERY strongly about it. I agree that I could have said things more nicely, but the original statement (You should be ashemed) was inflammatory as well.

...I must say from how you layed out this argument, you have gained some respect from me. Now in this case it was how you worded your argument, or flaw finding of his opinion.....

And likewise I am gaining more respect for you with this calmer reply, as opposed to the spitfire I saw after my first post.

Ford Focus's Recall History: http://www.autosafety.org/pressreleases/FordFocus.htm

As for the overall reliability and used cars to avoid, I have taken screenshots of the data on the site (in the subscribers' area) and will be more than happy to email these to any who want to see them. I have compressed everything into a 4xx kb zip file. It includes the cars to avoid list, as well as the projected reliability for 2002 models as judged by previous reliability. Very interesting.

I didn't mean to imply that you had only owned Fords. I myself have only owned Nissans, but my family is a loyal Chrysler family who happens to own a 1969 Ford pickup. I have friends who have owned other cars, and I have seen firsthand the reliability of many different cars. [/b][/quote]

[replicant_008]

Just a couple of things to think about crash testing.

I actually applaud crash testing - the wide use of this regime has resulted in some serious and significant improvements to the passive safety elements of cars worldwide. Ergo, the use of three-point seatbelts (and their widespread use), airbags (well to an extent), side impact bags, detachable pedals, and major improvements to the structural components of vehicles (particularly the passenger cell). This has greatly improved the survivability and reduced the casualties and severity of injuries as a result of accidents.

However, I do have some reservations about taking this regime to extremes. For instance, the frontal impact test tends to favour larger cars with a stiff front end with a crumple zone directly behind it to reduce severity of deceleration forces within the passenger cell. We have seen from testing that larger cars esp vehicles like the Range Rover and the Escalade do very well in this test.

Unfortunately, if you are in a small car that gets clobbered side on by such a vehicle that does well in this test you are going to get far more injured as the impact forces will be much greater and will be borne far more by your vehicle (as opposed to the mobile tank that slammed into you). These larger vehicles also are likely to direct the impact far higher than a smaller vehicle - ergo I would not want to be in a Miata getting hit in the driver's door by a RangeRover who ran a red light or a pedestrian crossing the street getting nailed by one.

One other thing is that the tests are getting a bit silly. EuroNcap revised their rating for the C-Class without retesting because their revised criteria awarded bonus points for having a chime reminding passengers as well as the driver that did not put on their seatbelt.

And finally crash testing omits to take into account the active safety elements of vehicles eg ABS, Stability control, roadholding and traction of cars (and the skills of the driver). I'd rather have a car that helped me to avoid an impact rather than one that merely helped me out a bit if I do clobber or get clobbered by someone.

As ever I believe that your vehicle should fit the purpose it was intended for and your use of it as opposed to where it was made.

[Ssom]

[quote]Originally posted by TerminalVelocity
[b]First, I dont know why I am gracing this with a reply

Well, sorry you had such an uneventfull time seeing them. If you did that many areas you should have seen many many classics. Maby you dont know what the look like...

Actually it wasn't uneventful- I like the new ones better anyway (At least the V8 ones)- Well I didn't see many classics- b00-fuckin-h00

hahaha, funny. Sucks to be me? Two words for you to start out with
Corvette
Cobra

Now to let you know, I'd much rather have eather of those over your slow Skyline *no offence spec2, I love skylines but I love my muscle, and i'm making a point here*

R33 specifications as tested by Car and Driver
December 1995


Horsepower 276 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 271 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Acceleration

0-40 mph 2.7
0-60 mph 5.3
0-80 mph 9.1
0-100 mph 12.9

0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 14.0 @ 104 mph

Braking

From 70 mph 159 ft

Handling

300 ft skidpad 0.94 g

Interior Noise

Idle in neutral 47 dBA
Full throttle acceleration 81 dBA
70 mph cruising 72 dBA
70 mph coasting 71 dBA

R34 Specifications as tested by Road and Track
February 1999

Horsepower 277 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 293 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Acceleration

0-40 mph 2.7
0-60 mph 5.2
0-80 mph 8.7
0-100 mph 13.0

0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.7 @ 103.5 mph

Braking

From 60 mph 120 ft
From 80 mph 204 ft

Handling

200 ft skidpad 0.89 g
700 ft slalom 60.8 mph

Fuel Economy

Normal Driving 22.8 mpg

Interior Noise

Idle in neutral 52 dBA
Maximum 1st gear 78 dBA
70 mph 76 dBA

CORVETTE Z06
Shown above: starting at $51,155*

THE QUICKEST CORVETTE YET.
Z06 stormed onto the scene two years ago, and enthusiasts still can’t get enough of this radical Corvette. 405 horsepower. Zero-to-60 in under four seconds. Lateral acceleration of 1 g. And a top speed that has exceeded over 170 mph on a test track.

(from chevy)

oh, and to let you know the quatermile time is 12.6 seconds @ 114 mph

Cobra
too lazy to type out cobra stats
and heres the stats for it with est quartermile times

(ironically I found this on google and its my own thread)

yes- but put yourself in my situation- there is piss-all aftermarket support for a Vette Z06 for us- there is after-market support by the bucket-loads for GTR's - Walk into any performance shop in NZ- you will be guaranteed that they have plenty of aftermarket GTR parts- but you would have to go to some form of specialist for a Vette- even though the 5.7 Gen 3 is fitted to Holden's- I see little in the way of aftermarket support for it

Acutally, Ford's trucks are the weak link in the chain, poor crash results *as boingo pointed out* and cheep interior make them below par. But the Crown Vic is the car used by police forces across america due to 1 its one of the last fullsize vehicles, 2 its relyalability. Every car maker has had problems with cars, I havent heard of any Taurus's 'sploding so if your going to say that give me facts. And as I said, vics are damn near invincible, i've rallyed them, and I know some people who repair them for the Sherrifs out here, they hold up extremly well against the abuse. And to let you know there is no OHV 4.6, the modular 4.6 comes as SOHC *trucks and base level mustangs/crown vics, mid 90's t-birds* and DOHC *cobra, no more needed to say* Ford's 5.0 is the -ONLY- real rival for the 350, its lack of cubes is made up for by being placed in generally lighter vehicles. Can you name me a more reylable performance engine than the 350? I doubt it, but please do if you can.

Really- I talk to guy on Yahoo (Who Ironically enough I met through an Anti-Ford group)- Who is running a 1986 F-150- he has over 300,000 miles on it- the only maintenence comes from oil and fluid changes etc.
and the clutch went at 250k- case closed.
The Crown Vic however is not favoured for that the ONLY reson is it is the last full-size REAR-WHEEL DRIVE car- which for some reason is favoured by cops- I dunno why- btw how old is the Crown Vicky platform at the moment???? All I know is it is almost antique.

As for the Taurus- "Ford also showed it could out-European the Europeans. It's 1985 Taurus (also sold as the Mercury Sable) was so revolutionary (for America) it took peoples breath away. Designed on computers and built in highly-automated factories, the sleek looking Taurus had a shape people either liked or hated. Many people obviously liked it, because 368,000 units were sold in the first year.

At least thats the story told by Ford; the reality is as follow: the American Ford models priror to the Taurus were antiquated in design, gas-guzzlers by inclination and often unreliable in use. The Tauruswas a genuine attempt to bring Ford into the 20th Century, but the inevitable Ford cost-cutting in the wrong places led to the Taurus being one of the great Ford lemons.

Tauruses look great and handle well, but for some owners the fun ends there. Transmissions and clutches drop like flies, steering parts fail, engines overheat, brakes fail, head gaskets blow. People had thier houses burnt down when thier beloved Taurus spontaneously ignited in the garage. American Ford Motor Company seems to be doing everytihng in it's power to avoid responsibility for the Taurus' appalling design and build quality"

This extract is from the "Dog and Lemon guide"- Whih although likes bias toward Toyota- are usually very accurate in thier brand history pages

By your lack of facts, your simply getting upset and stating your opinion as though I'm sposto bow down to it. You calling me a redneck for driving a domestic and defending my brand of cars.

Violently...ok...so youve never run anyone over...good job. A normal sane person...ok...well i'm glad i'm one of those insane fools, must explain why i'm going to join the police force in 10 months and counting.

Whoop-de-fuckin-doo

[TerminalVelocity]

Originally posted by boingo82
Aww, geez, don't lump my Infiniti in with Daewoos or Hyundais.

Hey, you lumped my ford in with Chevy

I will absolutely make fun of anyone's spelling I want to. Anyone who is 14 (the min. age for this site) should be able to spell and use proper grammar. As they are free to choose not to, I am free to mock them. Sorry, but I work at a newspaper, and spelling errors rub me the wrong way, as they should. Just ask Moondog.
And yes, I am by nature a very sarcastic person. Sorry, but I am like that in real life too, not just in the forums, because I usually don't say anything unless I feel VERY strongly about it. I agree that I could have said things more nicely, but the original statement (You should be ashemed) was inflammatory as well.

I generally dont bother with eather spelling or grammer. The cause of this being my mother, an english major and book editor, who has pestered me so much throughout my life I stoped caring even to where I make up my own words. And gee, I never would have noticed your a sarcastic person (I am many times as well obviously) And yes, I do see your point about you jumping on him for his statement, but in part I defended him because he is new here.

And likewise I am gaining more respect for you with this calmer reply, as opposed to the spitfire I saw after my first post

I've always had to fight to be heard, and fight to get anything in life. Correction, fight to have the -chance- of getting anything in life. Also, not only do I get flack for being domestic *points at moss -again-* but I get flack for driving a ford *points at moss yet again, and also at anyone who's pro GM* If presented with a good argument, I will have the utmost respect for it and dive in with a smile.

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
Whoop-de-fuckin-doo

I dont consider this a good argument... where as

Originally posted by boingo82
Ford Focus's Recall History: http://www.autosafety.org/pressreleases/FordFocus.htm

I consider a good argument...and might I add I find it funny as hell ford fubar'd that car so badly.

Anyway, I believe the point being nothing but prefrence. All car makers produce excelent cars, and dogs, it just depends on who you want your good car from.

[TerminalVelocity]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
Actually it wasn't uneventful- I like the new ones better anyway (At least the V8 ones)- Well I didn't see many classics- b00-fuckin-h00

you admit your wrong, and I laugh at you now.

yes- but put yourself in my situation- there is piss-all aftermarket support for a Vette Z06 for us- there is after-market support by the bucket-loads for GTR's - Walk into any performance shop in NZ- you will be guaranteed that they have plenty of aftermarket GTR parts- but you would have to go to some form of specialist for a Vette- even though the 5.7 Gen 3 is fitted to Holden's- I see little in the way of aftermarket support for it

Why should I? You never did first, insulting my "Yank Tank". Yes, you have skylines, TT300ZX's etc...We have corvetts, Cobras etc.

And why go to some shop when you can go to www.jegs.com ....Yes, they DO ship to you. And I dont see why you need to push past low 12's really, but if you wanted to you could with their help.

Really- I talk to guy on Yahoo (Who Ironically enough I met through an Anti-Ford group)- Who is running a 1986 F-150- he has over 300,000 miles on it- the only maintenence comes from oil and fluid changes etc.
and the clutch went at 250k- case closed.
The Crown Vic however is not favoured for that the ONLY reson is it is the last full-size REAR-WHEEL DRIVE car- which for some reason is favoured by cops- I dunno why- btw how old is the Crown Vicky platform at the moment???? All I know is it is almost antique.

First, I thought we were talking about the newer trucks. Ford has more recently made their trucks worse. Bty, some police forces are using Impallas, bonneville's and other 4 door cars. The Vic is so widly used because of its relyaliability, or it would be phazed out. And the platform still performes better than needed, incase you havent noticed cops done complain much bout their cars, least none of the ones I know do.

Whoop-de-fuckin-doo

Your the reason I didnt like middleschool

[boingo82]

Originally posted by TerminalVelocity
...
Anyway, I believe the point being nothing but prefrence. All car makers produce excelent cars, and dogs, it just depends on who you want your good car from.

Sure. The reason I'm an Infiniti/Nissan fan is that when I was first used-car shopping, I found an excellent-condition Sentra with tons of miles for cheap. It was the kind of car where the instant you climb into the driver's seat everything feels "right". You already know where the controls are, and how the clutch is adjusted, and how much throttle to use. The car felt perfect, like it was built around me. That was the first Nissan I ever sat in. After that car got totaled, I bought my G20, another car that just feels perfect. Sure, they both had "character", with the Sentra it was the center instrument panel light that was out, and the right hi-beam that never worked, no matter what bulb was in it. With the G20, it's the heavy trunk, the sticky sunroof, and the bad connection to the HVAC lights - they flicker sometimes because the contacts are old. However, any of that can be expected on an 8+ year old car that's over 100k miles, and they're very minor, non-safety compromising problems. Any case, I like Nissan because I like the reliability of the engines, the EXCELLENT visibility, and the way the car fits, among other things. I've driven Hondas, Chryslers, Fords, Chevys, Kias, etc, etc, etc, and none of the cars have felt like something I would like to spend time in.