Here comes the draft!

[2strokebloke]

Hmmm, maybe the government should give everybody jobs. You know, have state run companies, give everybody what and only what the government deems necessary to give them, we could stand in line for half an hour to get a loaf of bread...
Never mind. I don't think the government should be forcing jobs on people. Use your freedom of choice to make the right choice. But it's important that that choice, remains a choice.

[deadlight]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Hmmm, maybe the government should give everybody jobs. You know, have state run companies, give everybody what and only what the government deems necessary to give them, we could stand in line for half an hour to get a loaf of bread...
Never mind. I don't think the government should be forcing jobs on people. Use your freedom of choice to make the right choice. But it's important that that choice, remains a choice.

Kind of like a welfare-to-work program? The government uses big companies like say...Lockheed Martin, making defense weapons, *like we need any more* and employs people without work, gives them transportation to and from, and gives them the equivalent of welfare checks while boosting the economy. I kind of disagree with the program, it has it's flaws. Alot of people work the jobs because they feel they have to in order to get any support, and most people are gone from sunup to sundown, taking them away from their children. I think that's what you're getting at...correct me if I'm wrong.

[2strokebloke]

The government "finding" jobs for people is different, than forcing them to do work. Tongue in cheek, I was making reference to communism, with government appointed jobs in government run companies.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by SniperX13

because it might actually instill some discipline, morals, responsibility, and most of all, self-respect.

I really dont think the military is the best place to instill morals in people.
from what i understand, our military is a killing organization. to quote the ever wonderful Dick Cheney "the military does not exist as a welfare organization, or as an educational institution. The military exists for one reason, and that is the eradication of our enemies". The military enforces such things as the inability to reason, the blind taking of orders, and instinct to kill rather than reason with your adversaries. While i think military service is an honorable thing, it is hardly a "moral" institution

and on the greater point, theres alot of blaming on this thread as far as "democrats did this, and republicans did that, your party sucks, etc"

what we are forgetting is that both parties are a part of the larger political machine that has held power over our politics since 1776, and will hold power until America collapses in on it own puffed up jingoism. there is no coincidence that the two men running for president are essentially the same canidate. its no coincidence that there isnt a third party in this country with any sort of pilitical power. remember always, "the illusion of choice is the greatest tranquilizer for the populace"

[SniperX13]

when I said morals, I meant by the fact that the military holds everyone responsible for their actions, good or bad. You are "forced" in a way to develop your own set of morals. I didnt mean they would literally teach you morals. I am sorry for the confusion, I should have clarified my statement better.

[DVS LT1]

Originally Posted by SniperX13

IPersonally, I like the idea of mandatory military time of 1 or 2 years. I think it would help cut down on crime and lazy people, because it might actually instill some discipline, morals, responsibility, and most of all, self-respect.

Thats an interesting point but you'd have to admit there are other more constructive & socially aiding programs that can lift people out of a hole and get them going on a good career.

As far as drafting goes, thats a complicated scenario. Most everyone who loves their country will say they would fight to protect it, but the idea of a worthwhile cause greatly differs between people. So in the event of a clear WWII type threat you'd expect the majority of citizens to enlist themselves - and this same majority wouldn't feel bad about the gov't starting up a draft because everybody should be fighting for this worthy cause. But if the cause is not something the majority believes in then the draft appears awful - and the minority who enlist or look forward to the draft feel bad because the others are not supporting their gov'ts decision. Its a tough call. You have to respect individual rights and freedoms - but on the other hand you also have to support your government's decisions (in theory anyways because they're supposedly acting for your best interest).

There's no way I'd go to Afganistan or Iraq to fight, draft or not. However, I'm sure I'd feel different if Afgani's or Iraqi's flew a couple of our plains into the CN Tower and blew it up. I think the biggest problem with the war on terror is there's no clear target. If it were one country controlling all the attacks it would be easier for people to take up arms and fight. It would be easy for people to focus and accept. The fact that many countries have links to terrorists makes it difficult cause you go into a country with a full head of steam, oust who you thought was the source, then as times goes on (and you're still stuck cleaning up) you start losing focus and even questioning if this was in fact a good target to begin with (cause the attacks are still happening or getting worse).

It might be easily for other countries or peoples to question or second guess the U.S. for their approach, but you guys don't have it easy when it comes to the war on terror. I'm not sure what I think, but I know America's decision to fight is no worse than Spain's decision to recoil from terrorist attacks. Things are messed up.

On a lighter note, you dudes are welcomed to come up and crash at my pad if you decide to ditch the draft. We'll take some beer & bud to the park and throw around the olde baseball, and teach you boys the fine art of street hockey.

[justacruiser]

I guess it depends on the situation. If a draft started for a war like vietnam or something, if I were called I would serve. However, if a war situation like WW2 came up, I'd go join instead of waiting to be drafted, there are more options that way.
It's a good idea to make women sign selective service cards too, makes it more 'equal'.

I agree with Yogs though, this is just a political ploy, nothing more, Bush knows that a proposal for the draft would completely torpedo him in the eyes of the U.S. and the world and he's maintained his stance on leaving by June 30 this whole time, so why draft more of them?

[RedLightning]

COME TAKE MY SISTER!!!! ah my dream would come true! yes that is mean and evil, but i dont care!!!!!!!!!!!!! ok ok im just kinding, i think this is a bad idea, its really stupid beause those ppl will not fight hard or work hard b/c its not thier choice to do it.

[AsianMike]

Originally Posted by SniperX13

I have done my time in the military, and if I got called back, I would grab my gear, head up front, do whats needed, keep my ass and head down, come back to my fiance (yup just asked her 2 days ago!) and go about my buisness. Personally, I like the idea of mandatory military time of 1 or 2 years. I think it would help cut down on crime and lazy people, because it might actually instill some discipline, morals, responsibility, and most of all, self-respect. If they do decide to pass it back, I do hope this time it is equally for all. Males and Females alike.

I couldn't agree more.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

I agree with Yogs though, this is just a political ploy, nothing more, Bush knows that a proposal for the draft would completely torpedo him in the eyes of the U.S. and the world and he's maintained his stance on leaving by June 30 this whole time, so why draft more of them?

Well, maybe Bush needs to shut some of the Republican Senators up?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...t_040420163408

For all of you that say that you will do what needs to be done if you get drafted...do you then say that a draft is a good thing? Consider the conflict they're drafting for.

[DevoutWankelist]

Complying with the draft and agreeing it are two separate things, you can't say that just because I would serve means that I think it is right.

I am not particularly enamored of the idea but I would serve because I would get arrested for not serving right? What were the jail times for non compliers in vietnam?

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by DevoutWankelist

What were the jail times for non compliers in vietnam?

Bill Clinton never served any time.

[DevoutWankelist]

[sarcasm]Yeah that really answered my question while helping the thread, fantastic, spectacular post, I am impressed[/sarcasm]

[jon@af]

Just to make sure I remember correctly, if I'm in college, I can stay in college OR go to the draft, right?

[Sean]

Interesting topic. I'm no expert on the subjuct, so keep in mind this is just a thought.

It would seem to me that the United States is large enough that it would have enough people voluntarily joining the military that they wouldn't need a draft. However, since they do, maybe they should rethink their stance on going to war.