B16 V.s B18 V.s H22

[SiZ]

Originally Posted by bambam89lx

But, I've seen both dynoed stock and the b16a seems to lose alot more HP through the drivetrain as compared to the B18. The b16 is usually dynoed at 115-118 WHP whereas the B18 is usually dynoed at 118-125 WHP.

Huh?! I think you're a little off.. Stock B16s generally dyno around 135.. I don't think I've ever seen one dyno as low as 120s. That wouldn't be right. You're going to have to show me some of the B16 vs. B18 dynos before I'm just going to believe you becaus that seems like a load of crap to me.

I got my b18b with 80k on it for 450. Not bad if u ask me. I can't wait to smoke some b16 powered hatches/rexes.

$450 american for a B18B!? I see 1st gen B16 longblocks going for around $5-600cdn. quite often.. Doesn't sound like that good of a deal to me.
I can't wait until you ACTUALLY get the motor done and in and realize that a B16 hatch/rex is still whooping on you.

[civicHBsi91]

Originally Posted by SiZ

I can't wait until you ACTUALLY get the motor done and in and realize that a B16 hatch/rex is still whooping on you.

common guy i know we have had our share fair of history, obviously im gonna favor the b18 because i have one and have whooped up on every b16 powered car i have raced including hatches, crxs, si's

my times speak for themselves most guys on here with b16 swaps were runnin 14.8-15.0 i believe with basically the same mods as me, if you put a better tranny on the LS is a way more complete motor all around it has more torque and with a shorter geared tranny it pulles a hell of alot harder than a b16 crx/hatch yes even from a roll



and ami your numbers are way off, i dont find that site to be a good source at all the ls redlines at 7 grand and they are giving the dohc zc way more hp than it really has, look at chuckhatch's dyno numbers with i/h/e they are not bad

[optimuscivic]

Originally Posted by civicHBsi91

common guy i know we have had our share fair of history, obviously im gonna favor the b18 because i have one and have whooped up on every b16 powered car i have raced including hatches, crxs, si's

my times speak for themselves most guys on here with b16 swaps were runnin 14.8-15.0 i believe with basically the same mods as me, if you put a better tranny on the LS is a way more complete motor all around it has more torque and with a shorter geared tranny it pulles a hell of alot harder than a b16 crx/hatch yes even from a roll

and ami your numbers are way off, i dont find that site to be a good source at all the ls redlines at 7 grand and they are giving the dohc zc way more hp than it really has, look at chuckhatch's dyno numbers with i/h/e they are not bad

my brothers old b18a hatch with a b16 tranny, beat many b16a hatches in the 1/4. but i would consider either of those motors a great choice. the b18a has a way better torque curve than the b16a though. and why do people think the zc has 137 hp? and my b18a redlines at 7200. i guess people who never had this engine always assume too.

[SiZ]

Your times are quite suprisingly decent in your CRX, but there's lots of B16 powered cars running just as fast or faster than that with the same mods. Really.

What kind of tires are you running to hit a 2.1 60'?
Azenis!? What tranny?

the b18a has a way better torque curve than the b16a though.

Ya, but where?! In the low rev range. A B16 transmission is going to hold you within 1500rpm of the rev limit.. You're telling me a B18A has a better power curve in the 2000+ rpm than a B16?!
I don't get it.

[bambam89lx]

In this months issue of "honda tuning", there is an SiR hatchback, a true JDM b16a RHD Hatchback. This guy chose to keep his car completely stock. The only thing he added to the engine was a CTR intake cam and an ITR exhaust cam. The BEST quarter mile he could ever pull with this Sir is a 14.86. I'm guessing that would mean that a stock b16a powered hatch would run the 1/4 in about 14.9-15.1....which is not fast at all.

Also, when I say "STOCK" dyno numbers I mean STOCK. No header, intake, cams, exhaust, etc. That number i pulled for stock B16a's was actually a generalization because I saw one dyno of a STOCK B16a. Maybe his engine had some gremlins in it who knows. But after some searching. It appears that B16a's make 125-133 WHP BONE STOCK. But, they seem to barely push over 100 ft/lbs of torque. The average for this is 95-101 ft/lbs of torque on a BONE STOCK B16a motor. That's not impressive at all IMO. I prefer torque over HP anyday.

also, the bigger difference between the b16a and the b18a/b is the trannsmissions. If you were to bolt the same tranny to both engines(any tranny, ur pick...) the b18 would win in a 1/4 mile.
I also prefer my 99 B18B that I got for 450 U.S. dollars because it's only 4 years old and it only has 80k on it. Those B16a's are high mileage and they can be 16 years old. Also, you never know which one you are getting; one from an Rsi or Xsi or rarely a SiR B16a.

You're telling me a B18A has a better power curve in the 2000+ rpm than a B16?!

YES!!! B16a's put down about 88 ft/lbs of torque at 2000k RPM!

P.S.
Siz- please don't have any harsh feelings towards me because I prefer a B18...I got love for you and anyone else putting money into his/her 4G and keepin' it alive!

[civicHBsi91]

no i do not have azeni's i have regular old michillen tires with a ys1 non lsd tranny ive seen people do slightly better times with their b16's but they were also in 88-89's and non si's

[SiZ]

Originally Posted by bambam89lx

In this months issue of "honda tuning", there is an SiR hatchback, a true JDM b16a RHD Hatchback. This guy chose to keep his car completely stock. The only thing he added to the engine was a CTR intake cam and an ITR exhaust cam. The BEST quarter mile he could ever pull with this Sir is a 14.86. I'm guessing that would mean that a stock b16a powered hatch would run the 1/4 in about 14.9-15.1....which is not fast at all.

14.8 with a real SiR?! Do you know how heavy SiRs are? They're a couple hundred more pounds more than the Sis.
Thats one of the things about the B16A, the parts for modding are everywhere for them. I see used ITR cams for sale for $400cdn. all the time on local webboards. You're not going to get gains out of the LS motor as easily and as cheap as that.

I also prefer my 99 B18B that I got for 450 U.S. dollars because it's only 4 years old and it only has 80k on it. Those B16a's are high mileage and they can be 16 years old.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're telling me a B18A has a better power curve in the 2000+ rpm than a B16?!
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YES!!! B16a's put down about 88 ft/lbs of torque at 2000k RPM!

I don't even think that 1st gen B16As come over with as many as 80k on them?!?!

And about the power curve, you misunderstood and I misspelled. I meant the last 2000+rpm of the rev limit on a B18 compared to a B16. When you're racing with a B16A transmission thats where the revs are kept.

[civicHBsi91]

ok ok ok, siz...i believe you have run your car at the track right?

what did you run? what were your mods? 60'? tires?

[lithod02]

aight since we are on the subject is the ZC DOHC better or worse than the B16? What would be the next step up from the ZC DOHC for the next swap? I just bought this 89 HB with ZC swap couple months ago. Seems pretty peppy to me. Only mod I have is CAI. What would be the next (cheapest) best mod to get some more performance out of it?

[SiZ]

Originally Posted by civicHBsi91

ok ok ok, siz...i believe you have run your car at the track right?
what did you run? what were your mods? 60'? tires?

Yes I have. My first time out I ran a 15.0something @ 92.somethingsomething mph. My only mod is an exhuast, and I had my 16s on with Kumhos.. They were just jumping like crazy.. The best 60' I could muster was a 2.2something. Full interior + stereo (wich needs to go).

I can update you soon with more accurate info. The track just opened here for spring again and I should be going the Friday after this one.

What size tires did you have? I'm curious.. I'm thinking taller sidewalls and lower tire pressure will stop the bouncing problem I had. A 2.1 60' would be really nice.


lithod02 - Don't even start comparing a B16 to a ZC.. About the performance question, exhuast would be next, then a header, then you're stuck without spending big $.

[lithod02]

So, I take it from your reply the ZC is slower than a B16?

[SiZ]

[mightytexn]

Originally Posted by SiZ

Yes I have. My first time out I ran a 15.0something @ 92.somethingsomething mph. My only mod is an exhuast, and I had my 16s on with Kumhos.. They were just jumping like crazy.. The best 60' I could muster was a 2.2something. Full interior + stereo (wich needs to go).

I can update you soon with more accurate info. The track just opened here for spring again and I should be going the Friday after this one.

What size tires did you have? I'm curious.. I'm thinking taller sidewalls and lower tire pressure will stop the bouncing problem I had. A 2.1 60' would be really nice.


lithod02 - Don't even start comparing a B16 to a ZC.. About the performance question, exhuast would be next, then a header, then you're stuck without spending big $.

The ZC is about 125hp and the b16 is about 160

[civicHatch]

First of all, there is no way a b16a only dynoes under 120 hp.I have seen multiple dyno sheets of stock b16a (intake, exhaust) dyno 140+ easily. I have a b16a gen 1 out of a 89 integra XSI with lsd ys1 tranny. Now, I just raced (on saturday in philly) a crx with a b18b ls with intake, header, exhaust, and fuel work, i launched on him like half a car length, he started catching me in 2nd just a little bit , his nose was at my front fender when I shifted into 3rd, thats when I jumped a full carlength through 3rd and he stayed with me all through 4th. ALL i have done is intake and exhaust, no fuel or header, with flywheel and clutch. I have much respect for ls motors as they are about even with the b16 but:

WHOEVER SAYS THE B16A IS A TORQULESS WONDER, CANNOT DRIVE A B16A. Although it does lack on torque, if you launch right, you dont need torque. When I get a good launch and bleed the clutch, I never fall below 6,500 rpms through each gear. If you can use the horspower right, its a lot faster car. Then again, If you bog at all at the line, every gear after that will feel like its lacking. When it comes down to comparing what engine is faster in what car, its all about the drivers and the components chosen. To each his own, but the b16a is by far the most bang for your buck and is the most fun to drive.

ED6 88 dx with b16a w/ lsd
White with ZC carbon firber hood
Fresh black bumpers
jdm sidemarkers
gutted
function 7 billit rear control arms (1.5lbs each)
eibiech sportline race springs with KYB GR2's
KEEP IT CLEAN

[Setanta]

Originally Posted by bambam89lx

In this months issue of "honda tuning", there is an SiR hatchback, a true JDM b16a RHD Hatchback. This guy chose to keep his car completely stock. The only thing he added to the engine was a CTR intake cam and an ITR exhaust cam. The BEST quarter mile he could ever pull with this Sir is a 14.86. I'm guessing that would mean that a stock b16a powered hatch would run the 1/4 in about 14.9-15.1....which is not fast at all.

You dickhead - an EF9 weighs 1030 kilos. They are weighed down with a sunroof, power steering, and power everything else. Compare this to a USDM or Euro or Austral-asian Civic and you will see that the SiR gives away over 100 kilos in weight to all of them, sometimes more depending on the model. For example, my twin-carb GL weighed in at 880kilos, that's 150kg difference between it and my SiR with only 60bhp difference between the D15B and the B16A.

A stock SiR will NEVER break into the 14s unless it is the factory stripped, minimalist version and they were quite limited in numbers.