s2000

[publicenemy137]

taken from howstuffworks convertible section:

"Designing a convertible car is not as simple as just cutting off the roof and installing a folding cloth top. There are other issues to consider.
Structure
The roof of a conventional car is essential to the stiffness of the chassis. The roof helps keep the car from twisting and bending. Building a car without a roof is a bit like building a suspension bridge without the cables. As such, the bottom part of the structure of a convertible has to be stiffened considerably. Heavy reinforcing brackets have to be added to the body of the car. This is why convertibles often weigh more than their fixed-roof counterparts.


If you were to cut the roof off of your car, you'd find that the body would twist a lot, especially if you were to do something like, say, drive diagonally over speed bumps. Eventually, the car would develop all sorts of squeaks and rattles and exhibit some poor handling characteristics. It's important for convertibles to have an especially sound structure to make up for the lack of a roof."

[1viadrft]

yeah.... my Z feels kinda weird... it's probably the T-Tops! I would love to get a 4 point (at least) Roll Cage in it to combat the twisties... my new strut-bars didn't help all that much! I'm still working on the suspension still...

[flylwsi]

did you just say that a convertible isn't made to handle well?
the s2k was specifically designed for handling, and is one of the best handling cars on the road.

the reason the s2k doesn't drift is most likely the power delivery issue.

there are countless topless cars that can, and do, outhandle cars with roofs on them.

saying that a convertible can't handle b/c it's got no top is ignorant.

turning a coupe into a convertible, yes, this could be an issue.

building a car, such as the s2k, as a convertible from the start, you'll have different parameters, and you can build a great handling car. which it is.

same for the miata. not hard to make either car handle on rails, far better than some other roofed cars.

[1viadrft]

no one said it can't handle.... just not as rigid!

[Layla's Keeper]

Actually, when you're speaking accurately, the rigidity issue is purely comparative between a convertible and its hardtop companion. Yes, convertible Sebrings and 300ZX's exhibit chassis flex a lot more than their roof bearing companions, and as such roll bars and chassis braces are added to the chassis to compensate. This adds weight and generally makes convertibles heavier than their hardtop versions.

However, when you're talking about roadsters - cars designed from the get go without a roof - you can throw this theory right out the window. Because the engineers aren't relying on the roof as the primary stiffening agent, they shape the subframes and unibody differently. In fact, true roadsters have very rigid chassis and exhibit very little flex. Not every chassis is designed the same, and roadster chassis are designed very differently from coupe chassis.

Speaking as someone who has been involved with chassis design (short track tube frame race cars) I can say for certain that the assumption that an open top car's chassis flexes is incorrect.

[publicenemy137]

flyswsi we said for the reasons they can't drift, not handle. My sister has an S2000, and it is definetly a great handler. But it's not made for driving sideways, the chassis over-time will probably twist and break if you drift it a lot

[1viadrft]

very-true! Well-spoken!

[publicenemy137]

also I don't think power delivery is a problem for an S2000, sure it doesn't have much torque, but look at silvia's with SR20DET engines. Silvias have about 160 lbs of torque, same as the S2k, and have 210 hp stock. S2k has 245 hp, and both are high revvers. Silvia redlines at 8k I believe while the S2000 has 9k. It's more of a chassis issue for the S2000, not power delivery. I'd seen people drift well in a 240sx with a SOHC KA24 engine bone stock, so don't tell me the s2000 has a power delivery issue.

[MR2Driver]

Its not that simple Public Enemy, it has alot to do with the torque band, high revving NA engines arent very good for drift, the Silvia has that high redline because its turbo...

[1viadrft]

Actually I just read that the S2000 is pretty rigid in design due to a "spine" built into the bottom of the chassis... So I guess it's ok to drift... hell, I've seen it a couple times anyhow... but I guess that does not explain why we do not see them drift mainstream like other cars!

[publicenemy137]

yea i know, S2000's torque band is extremely high, at 6000. Although the Japanese S2200's torque band is at 3000, but they don't drift em there. The new S2000 coming to the state's has a lower torque band at 3000 so it's more useful, although I still don't see them drift often. I have seen them drift but very very rarely, and it's only like one curve, not a whole track.

They may have a spine built, but do you think it makes it rigid enough to drive sideways and twist around???

[flylwsi]

you guys make no sense.

handling has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH DRIFTING...

how can that not come up?

the s2k has no problem in handling, and drifting, and wouldn't break. that's the least logical thing i've heard in a long time.

there ARE videos of the s2k drifting.

why not ask mooboy on samuraifiles.com about drifting, b/c he drifts his s2k.
so ask him how hard it is...

[kfoote]

Though I don't have the numbers in front of me, I would be VERY surprised if the chassis of an S2000 is less rigid and had more flex than a hardtop Nissan S13 stock. Though chassis rigidity is a good thing, there are a lot of cars that are good handling that have a lot of chassis flex (BMW E36 M3 comes to mind). A good quick way to compare chassis flex is to find the point on the side of the car where the weight jacks up both the front and the rear wheels at the same time. With the car on the ground, measure the distance from the jacking point to the ground, a solid chassis point near the front wheel to the ground, and a solid chassis point near the rear wheel to the ground. Jack up the car. Measure the same points again. Compare the first measurements and the second, and figure there is no chassis flex at the jacking point measurement. You'll be amazed at how far the numbers are off in most cars. The S2000 is among the stiffer cars out there, and though I haven't done the measurements, I have jacked one up while looking for chassis flex, and there is less flex than most cars.

Also, a 4-point bolt in roll bar will only have a minimal reduction in chassis flex. Welding the 4-pt roll bar in will help some, and a properly designed welded 6-pt cage will significantly reduce chassis flex.

[publicenemy137]

^ why aren't they popular drifters then?

[FDTT]

Like siad before, they are far to expensive to be drift cars. It has been done, but a S2000 in Canada sells for 45k. Now that is alot for the average person to afford, especialy when you are beating the car.