Question about spark plugs

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by BoostedSpyder

and stock spark plugs and wires are the best for your car. they are good into the 9's i believe...

Good into 9's... that's too vague.

If he's gonna be raising boost to get to 9 second quarter miles, then he'll want cooler plugs to keep his engine safe from detonation. And to deliver a strong spark under pressure. Wires don't need to be meddled with until outrageously high boost (+17psi).

[my97blackgst]

Hey,

Thanks for your reply's, I am alot clearer now on what I need to do. Above all I just want to keep it reliable, where I don't have to worry about blowing up my turbo. Thanks for you guys understanding and answering my questions

Ben

[BoostedSpyder]

i'll just say that stock plugs and wires are good to outragously high boost levels and HP that could carry you into the 9's [realize the SHITLOAD of other mods to carry you that far]. at least the wires can. i believe the plugs are NGK BPR7ES that are a bit better [colder] than stock. but that is all you should need for spark and wires. do some more research... you will get all this eventually... and if you think 17psi is outragously high

[AcesHigh]

Well, I drive a Honda. We don't know the meaning of high boost...

Frankly, I think it is a better idea to spend money on anti-detonation measures and other things that keep your engine reliable than to buy black boxes and boost controllers to jump the psi's and lean the AFR without careful planning. Yes, you'll need to play around with boost to get power. But its better to underwork the car than to overwork it; there is an ideal threshold that we want to achieve for maximum power and maximum reliability. Unless it's not your daily driven car, of course.

After you get the intake exhaust mods out of the way, get a good side mounted intercooler. Not only will it up your horses by cooling more than your stock intercooler, it'll help your turbo out because there is less of a pressure drop so the turbo has to work less to reach its boost pressure. After you do this, run to the dyno and experiment with the best AFR and boost for your car. You'll need an accurate boost gauge and a boost controller to raise the stock boost. To mess with AFR, you'll need a fuel pressure regulator, a fuel gauge, and a fuel computer.

I suggest NGK copper plugs at about 0.032" gap. Thicker wires will be necessary when you reach 17-18psi. If you plan on setting it that high, well... take it to the dyno and see how your engine components are reacting to

Not all of us are made of money, and this was the cheapest way I could think of to up the horses without killing the engine.

[my97blackgst]

Hell yeah, I would rather have my engine realible at all times, So I will always go the safer route. I had a friend that had an 97 eclipse that he ran up to 30psi. I have sinced moved and lost contact with him. Or I would have asked him how he made it where he could take that much boost. I guess what really impressed me at the time was he was using the stock intercooler, I know this for a fact when we went to the dealership for his BOV was having some probs, the techs could not believe it was the stock intercooler. He used it as his daily driver. And never any probs. But I want to play it safe, Cause' I don't wanna have to buy a new engine or turbo anything like that right now. So that's why I am asking for all this advice. To keep it safe. I'll keep you guys posted an the mods I do to it. So I think I am out to buy a 1g BOV, plugs/wires, intercooler, a k&n air intake, and a boost gauge, and some exhaust mods to make a flow happy system. After that it sounds like I'll then need to get a boost controller and from there on fuel/turbo upgrades. Thanks for your replys and help.

Ben

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

Iridiums and platinums get your engine hotter. As does the Bosch +4. If you plan on keeping boost stock, get those; otherwise get some NGK copper plugs, gapped slightly less than stock. It keeps your engine cooler at +15psi boost.

And a little on the cat. Not drastic gain, but it'll help.

Platinum should be avoided like the plague on turbo DSMs. Iridium, I havent run it personally so I Will withhold judgement.

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

It's not how much boost your turbo can make that should worry you, it's how much psi's can your internals handle that should really concern you.

What a motor can handle, and boost, are two totally different things. You cant measure a motors power capacity in PSI. PSI isnt power, airflow is, and power is cylinder pressure (or heat, see PV=nrt), and that is how you determine the limits of the motor. The T25 will never make enough power to threaten even a small rod 7 bolt at its maximum boost. It may cause knock from lack of efficiency and take out a ring or land, but that can happen at any power level.

Consider this. A t25 at 25 psi might make 250 HP. My setup at 25 psi made 400 whp (which I'll admit I'm not proud of). In which case is the motor more at risk?

Just one of those technicalities that is a pet peeve of mine, not trying to be a bastard

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by TurbosR4me

A Never heard of 2g owners upgrading their MAS but i could be wrong. Stock 2g internal strength really isnt a problem until about... 350hp?

The stock 2g MAS is good to roughly 450-500 HP. Once you move ~390 gramns per second, or about 50 lbs/min of air, it starts to lose count. ITs gets ugly, trust me. I found that limit at the shootout last year. Most poeple are now upgrading to a GM hotwire MAF out of the LS1 cars via the MAFtranslator. This is what I use now.

The stock 2g internals are doing up to 450 whp. Not too bad at all. But I have to admit I would feel better with larger rods in there, like the 6 bolt rods or aftermarket.

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

Good into 9's... that's too vague.

If he's gonna be raising boost to get to 9 second quarter miles, then he'll want cooler plugs to keep his engine safe from detonation. And to deliver a strong spark under pressure. Wires don't need to be meddled with until outrageously high boost (+17psi).

More like 30+ psi. I swear by stock wires. I tried magnacores and 3 sets in a row misfired within a day or two. NGKs worked well for me, and are the most trusted brand by DSMers. Use any other brand at the risk f getting misfires under boost right out of the box. Its tough for the spark to jump the gap with the cylinder densities we run under boost. A wire that would be perfectly fine on a NT car could easily cause misfires on a turbo car. The higher the airflow, the more likely it is to be an issue. I think 9s is pushing it though, since the stock ignition will be long gone by then in most cases. Though poeple are in the 10s from what i have seen on stock ignition. I personally find that even at 25+ psi colder plugs dont make any difference at all in knock, but it cant hurt.

Sorry for the 5 posts, but I'm way too tired to try to get them all organized into one

[AcesHigh]

Oh, and if you want to jump around different psi's alot, get an electronic boost controller. It's just convenient to be able to change the boost in the cabin. I kept my old TSI talon at a constant 16psi with a manual boost controller, alot of times I wished that I could tune it down from inside the car.

To answer the iridium plugs thing, it was burning too rich and everytime I took the plugs out there was always a black residue that accumulated on the tips of the plugs. NGK Platinums were slightly better, but the coppers I found to be the best.

[BoostedSpyder]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

To answer the iridium plugs thing, it was burning too rich and everytime I took the plugs out there was always a black residue that accumulated on the tips of the plugs. NGK Platinums were slightly better, but the coppers I found to be the best.

are you paying attention to anything in here? platinum plugs = shit. best plugs for DSM = BPR7ES if anything other than stock.

and about the long post i made earlier, pay attention to that, that will be the SAFEST way to go about tuning your DSM in the early phases. everything is bolt-on, and an imporovement over stock parts. this means that when you are pushing your DSM's envelope, you will have parts that are made for it, not parts that are made to restrict performance. a bigger intercooler will be a waste of money at this phase in tuning!!! you just don't need it!!! and as far as what AcesHigh said about all that fuel tuning, it is a complete waste of time on a T-25. this is a turbo that is not worth spending $$$ on making it run to its top abilities, IMHO. other than getting a bigger fuel pump [AFTER everything else has been done] you will need nothing else at this pahse. i just want to make it clear, so you don't go wasting $$ when you could be making it more productive in upgrades that will help you.

Boost Gauge > K&N FIPK, Dump Tube Hack [intake pipe]> Turbo-Back Exaust [DP, [HI-FlowCAT {optional}], CB-exhaust] > UICP/BOV > MBC/EBC, 190lph Fuel Pump > FMIC > Turbo Upgrade > Fuel Tuning w/ SAFC, DSMLink, etc... [that's a whole other story, but by the time you get there you will know what you need to know]

stick to this route and you will be safe, happy, and fast

[JoeWagon]

Don't think you are clear on everything from this post. I wish I had read it earlier before GSXracer got to it, but his answers are all right on...

2g BOV leaks at 12psi, stock is 15psi, max is 16psi.

You don't need an intercooler until you have a turbo bigger than 14b, then you will want a FMIC, not sidemount.. unless you have special needs, like a sleeper with medium turbo, small 16g or T28...

If a T25 could make 30psi, it would still be safe for internals, it matters on the turbo.. not psi.

600 for a BOV and boost controller is way way way too much. You can get a cheap UICP and 1g bov for under 100, and a boost controller from 50-300 (profec b).

Once again remember that 95 GSXracer ran 12's on 1800 bucks, DSM's are supposed to be cost efficient horsepower, don't spend more than you have to.

Your friend running 30psi on stock IC doesn't strike me as 'impressive' so much as wasteful. He may have been on a budget, or saving up.. I don't know.. but stock IC sucks nuts, and isnt good for much air flow at all.

Dunno if I missed the reason- plugs and wires aren't necessary in the beginning part of modding. Unless yours are broken, don't replace them.

It's .030 for under 16psi. and .028 for over 16psi.

[my97blackgst]

Hey,

Thanks for your reply's. I seem to be getting alot of info. The only reason I am replacing my plugs/wires right now is because they have never been changed. The car has 96,000 miles on it and I figured it would be a good idea. I was checking out www.dsmtrader.com and found some really good deals on there. I did find some NGK BPR7ES and I bought them, $15 shipped. I have lots of ideas to go off now. And I'll be keeping my signature updated with my mods. Thanks for all your help so far everybody and if you have a comments or suggestion keep them coming.

Ben

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by BoostedSpyder

are you paying attention to anything in here? platinum plugs = shit. best plugs for DSM = BPR7ES if anything other than stock.

Christ. Do you have anything to say other than regurgitating 95 GSXracer? I said the platinums are not as bad as iridiums, NOT that they were the ones to use.

Good job on rephrasing all the 'staged performance upgrades' guides for the DSM. You win nothing.

There's not one limited path that you can go for tuning. Balance is everything. While you're still in the lower levels, a side air-to-air intercooler will make a good impact. Alot of people stay at this level for a long time, especially if you are planning on using smaller turbos to get faster spool times. Not everyone has to have the same damn setup.

[TurbosR4me]

What company makes an aftermarket SMIC for a DSM? (Just Curious) Upgrading your intercooler to another side-mount seems kinda wasteful to me too. Its like upgrading your T25 to a 14B. While it may be good to learn how to tune, why not jump up a step to a 16g or a FMIC?