09R and Hitotsuyama solved...

[jkbon]

A stupid question, but I'm not afraid :

Is it possible that the "Ueno Clinic replica" is an LM "black with graphics" instead of a GTR ?

[maartenvanthek]

one guy who recently posted on this forums once said that the black LM's had a black top with grey side per the uenoclinic cars with blunting flag styles in red blue and yellow or something, now if it would have been replica's he would have said it. this source is completely reliable.

[Stratoraptor]

in notice that in the picture of the white #07R, the rear rascia looks a little different from the standard 1997 F1 GTR.

could someone explain? did AMG Mercedes-Benz team recieve the car like that, or was that a re-work that they did on their own?

[TcarR]

I picked a great couple or days to go away . So much has happend. Stratoraptor, the white car is most probably a 96 GTR (07R), updated to 97 spec. It looks different cause it has had loads of Mercedes GTR developement bits bolted on. The new rear reminds me of an R34 Skyline or the new MG SV.

I'm with jkbon. I think both of the black LMs are 01R replicas. What else could it mean by 'black with graphics'?

[maartenvanthek]

what i just said. The source i'm referring to used to work at McLaren. He worked there at the time of the build of the LM's. if they were replica's he would've said it, b/c he described the way they look. If it were replica's he would have said so, because it made an easier job for him.

[Monty Kernow]

More confirmation about Hitotsuyama 25R!!

http://www.qv500.com/mclarenf1p10.htm

[Peloton25]

That's pretty funny Monty, because that used to be the same page that mentioned the Hitotsuyama car being a spare parts car and not having a chassis number. It looks like someone has educated them as well.

Ok - one more time now - #09R is the Ueno Replica, and there are also two black LMs in the Sultans collection along with an Orange LM, the black F1 GT, and at least one F1 road car, probably more. That's what is confirmed though up to today.

>8^)
ER

[mini magic]

Then whats the West car that tvrfreak saw?

[Peloton25]

If you read the first post in this thread, Monty suspects that it was actually #04R which is entirely possible as far as I'm concerned.

>8^)
ER

[mini magic]

ok, thanks

[McLaren Mike]

Hey mini_magic, I asked in a previous thread to you im pretty sure how many cars in total, i can remember u saying 109 chassis and 107 working produced?

Correct me if i am wrong, plus

Peloton, I meant to say how many chassis built not existed. When they say 64 roadcars does that include XPs? Because they include 56XPGT and not XP1LM and I dont see why they wouldn't include XP1-5 in that 64 count. So that could be 106, plus that replica, is that counted? And then the Clinic Car. I am a lil confused about this as I was told by many chassis lists the 25R Car was really spare parts,

-Mike

[McLaren Mike]

Hey sorry mini_magic again. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=147322 "A few questions about the F1"

Here you quite clearly say 107 working chassis, 109 all together. No1 knew about the Replica, so if your calculations are correct 109 +1 = 110.

So then I thought 110 but if in your previous post you counted 25R aswell as the "mystery car" (now discovered) it could subtract and make 109 again I think
Ill stop confusing every1

-Mike

[Peloton25]

Ok, I could quote all of that, and pick it apart, but it's easier to just list the breakdowns.

64 road cars - these are F1 road cars built for customers from late 1993 to mid 1998 and that number doesn't include the XPs.

28 GTRs - 9 '95 GTRs, 9 '96 GTRs, 10 '97 long tail GTRs. The Ueno Replica was the last of the '95s, #09R.

5 F1 LMs - these are the customer LMs - two of which are black. A total of three including the black ones went to the Sultan, one of the other two is now in the US and the final one is in Japan.

2 F1 GTs - these are the customer GTs. The black one went to Brunei, the Burgundy one to the LM customer in Japan.

Those numbers in bold add up to 99 F1s. That's one shy of the magic number 100 so obviously McLaren Cars decided to roll '56XPGT' into the tally to get their even number.

Then, as you mentioned, that leaves 'XP1 LM' and the 5 XP's road car prototypes (XP1 - XP5) unaccounted for. Add them to the previous '100' and now you have 106 McLaren F1s produced. Then add the spare chassis, which was built, but I do not believe has been used at all anymore, and that brings us to the often quoted number '107'.

The Clinic Model should not be counted as it's not even a true chassis. It was built by a prototyping company called MGA and it's construction would not be the same as the production F1s. Remember it was built in early 1992 and the first running prototype 'XP1' wasn't built until late in 1992. The Clinic Model also was not a runner, meaning it lacked the proper drivetrain components and I'd assume things like the suspension weren't completed either. Think of it as a 1:1 scale model if anything. It should never be included in total number of F1s produced. I even think including the spare chassis is somewhat misleading.

That's it - that's the total chassis history of the McLaren F1. There are no extra cars popping out of the woodwork, just some mysteries being solved here about which car was which. For instance, we used to believe that the West Adrenaline GTR was #09R since no one really knew about the Ueno replica that was built for the Sultan. Now we know that info was incorrect and will have to pursue the real chassis number for the West car - #04R is a good suspect given the evidence. Also, it had been reported that the JGTC Hitotsuyama Racing GTR had been built up from spare parts which led many to believe, including myself, that the spare chassis had been put to use and that there were really 29 GTRs total. Now given new evidence, it would appear that GTR #25R was actually rebuilt using spare parts in order to make it whole again for the Hitotsuyama team. No more mystery GTR...

Anyway - hopefully that sleep deprived rambling will clear up some of the confusion you are having. Don't you have a copy of the 'bible' by the way? I thought you did?

>8^)
ER

[McLaren Mike]

Is the pope a catholic?
Thanks for clearing that up, Where is the Clinic Car now? If it ever was for sale what would be a reasonable offer? I guess you might have to include it in the chassis list , its a patchy topic.

+ a little off the topic, but will the new McLaren service centre be viewable to the public? And whats the adress and what is the ratio of the old to new MCL headquaters?

-Mike

[mini magic]

thanks for clearing that all up peloton.

I assume the Clinic car is at McLarens headquaters, but i will call up the beaulea (sp?) museum when i am over in the uk in 2 weeks