did my first autocross and LOVED it!

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by Miataracer

my current suspension set up is all stock minus front sway bar... tired out 168,000 mile shocks, springs, suspension bushings...

and as for the track days... been there, done that, got the SCCA drivers liscence now I know its bed time I can't even spell that right... ugh

LOL, we understand so it's all good.

But wow, pretty impressive. Now just add a rear bar if you don't already have one, and watch that rear end rotate a bit more next event. Did you play with your tire pressures at the event? That can make a big differance too I've noticed.

[eckoman_pdx]

Okay, Autocross is not my area of expertise. So autocross is on a track, and is one person runs at a time, and track a event is an actual race, like the SCCA, multiple people at the same time? Am I close? I haven't much expereince with autocross, so the terms elude me. I would like to make sure I know what I am talking about and hearing when it comes to this conversation, in that regard, lol.

[Miataracer]

autocross is just a big area of pavement with cones all over the place you have to find your way through. track day you actually hit the real deal race track.

SilverY2K, you did catch that I havent replaced anything on the suspension yet right? Just ditched the front sway bar because I broke it. I need new shocks, springs, and a rear sway at least. I would like to get some new bushing in it as well but we'll see... trying to save up for spring break in panama city now.

oh, and as for tire pressures, I ran 46 in the front, 40 in the rear. a local guy who also has a 94 EX coupe reccomended that to me

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by Miataracer

autocross is just a big area of pavement with cones all over the place you have to find your way through. track day you actually hit the real deal race track.

SilverY2K, you did catch that I havent replaced anything on the suspension yet right? Just ditched the front sway bar because I broke it. I need new shocks, springs, and a rear sway at least. I would like to get some new bushing in it as well but we'll see... trying to save up for spring break in panama city now.

oh, and as for tire pressures, I ran 46 in the front, 40 in the rear. a local guy who also has a 94 EX coupe reccomended that to me

Thanks for the explination. That really clears some things up for me .

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by Miataracer

SilverY2K, you did catch that I havent replaced anything on the suspension yet right? Just ditched the front sway bar because I broke it. I need new shocks, springs, and a rear sway at least. I would like to get some new bushing in it as well but we'll see... trying to save up for spring break in panama city now.

Yup, caught that. Again WOW!

Ok, so no stock rear bar of course then. I'd say start out first with a 13mm Si rear bar unless you think the big guns are needed off the bat (22mm ITR rear bar). If you go ITR bar absolutely invest in the $65 Beak's kit to avoid any subframe tearout issues with the strain of a large size bar.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic

Yup, caught that. Again WOW!

Ok, so no stock rear bar of course then. I'd say start out first with a 13mm Si rear bar unless you think the big guns are needed off the bat (22mm ITR rear bar). If you go ITR bar absolutely invest in the $65 Beak's kit to avoid any subframe tearout issues with the strain of a large size bar.

I actually saw pics in a differnet forum once of a 6th gen civic hatch with the beaks kit and a 22mm, sway bar, and his sub-frame was torn to sh*t. Several guys with the 6th gens even had problems with the suspeinion technique bars (and no beaks kit). I imagine it's not to commen though. I know 6th gen civics (non-type-r) have a fairly weak sub-frame. They made it sound like the 5th gen's had a stronger sub-frame, which is why no 5th gens had the problem. Is that true? Either way, I agree, get a beaks kit. For $65, it's definstly worth it.

[Fliquer]

I ran 46 in the front, 40 in the rear. a local guy who also has a 94 EX coupe reccomended that to me

Youre not running that in a miata are you?

[Miataracer]

nope... Civic EX

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

I actually saw pics in a differnet forum once of a 6th gen civic hatch with the beaks kit and a 22mm, sway bar, and his sub-frame was torn to sh*t. Several guys with the 6th gens even had problems with the suspeinion technique bars (and no beaks kit). I imagine it's not to commen though. I know 6th gen civics (non-type-r) have a fairly weak sub-frame. They made it sound like the 5th gen's had a stronger sub-frame, which is why no 5th gens had the problem. Is that true? Either way, I agree, get a beaks kit. For $65, it's definstly worth it.

I've heard of this from friends too as well. That's the setup I have on my coupe, ITR rear bar and Beak's kit. Not sure of the hatch subframe is different than the coupe subframe, but reguardless, I still check mine periodically for any signs of tearout. So far so good.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic

I've heard of this from friends too as well. That's the setup I have on my coupe, ITR rear bar and Beak's kit. Not sure of the hatch subframe is different than the coupe subframe, but reguardless, I still check mine periodically for any signs of tearout. So far so good.

That's actually one of the reason's I took notice of it when I first saw it awhile ago. I remember you tellin me once the set-up you had, and when I read it I thought...hmm...that's SilverY2KCivic's setup. So you've heard of this too? You know of many cases of that happening? I'd imagine the big bar on a weak sub-frame could equal problems under the correct circumstances, even with a beak's (though it definatly helps out a bunch). A messed up sub-frame costs a grip to fix.

BTW, Miataracer, those were really good times/finishes you had for a stock suspension.

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

That's actually one of the reason's I took notice of it when I first saw it awhile ago. I remember you tellin me once the set-up you had, and when I read it I thought...hmm...that's SilverY2KCivic's setup. So you've heard of this too? You know of many cases of that happening? I'd imagine the big bar on a weak sub-frame could equal problems under the correct circumstances, even with a beak's (though it definatly helps out a bunch). A messed up sub-frame costs a grip to fix.

Yup, I've heard of it too. Only a few cases I've heard of through friends, but it seems like it's more often than I had thought it might be. But like you said, it all depends one on the person's car and mods done to it, and also on the driving style of the driver. I don't go pushing my car around corners often, I'll drive some canyon roads once in a while on weekends, but during the week, I'm all daily driver, no time for extreme handling. I'm sure the rest of my setup has a bit to do with things as well. Plus a couple months ago I also put on some new 2kg stiffer springs on my Tein coilovers all around. A bit more bouncy, but it's giving me the exact handling I've been hunting for at the auto-X events I participate in.

But yes, the thicker the bar, the more strain it puts on the subframe and the mounting points of the bar to it. If a 22mm will still rip through a kit, imagine what the Mugen 26mm bar can do! I've seen what tearout looks like before, and it's definitely not a pretty sight. Quite expensive to repair also like you said.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic

Yup, I've heard of it too. Only a few cases I've heard of through friends, but it seems like it's more often than I had thought it might be. But like you said, it all depends one on the person's car and mods done to it, and also on the driving style of the driver. I don't go pushing my car around corners often, I'll drive some canyon roads once in a while on weekends, but during the week, I'm all daily driver, no time for extreme handling. I'm sure the rest of my setup has a bit to do with things as well. Plus a couple months ago I also put on some new 2kg stiffer springs on my Tein coilovers all around. A bit more bouncy, but it's giving me the exact handling I've been hunting for at the auto-X events I participate in.

But yes, the thicker the bar, the more strain it puts on the subframe and the mounting points of the bar to it. If a 22mm will still rip through a kit, imagine what the Mugen 26mm bar can do! I've seen what tearout looks like before, and it's definitely not a pretty sight. Quite expensive to repair also like you said.

Yea, I can imagine what a Mugen 26mm bar could do! I imagine it wouldn't be pretty. I know the type-r subframe is stronger than the regular sub-frame by a decent amount. I suppose if someone tore the sub-frame and had the Type-R one properly welded on in it's place during the repairs, that 26mm Mugen might work then (why not add the beaks kit as well for insurence) without quite the major likelyhodd of a major tearout. That would for sure help eliminate worries about the 22mm and beaks kit. It'd be a lot harder to tear it out with that if you grafted on a Type-R sub-frame. But Again, why do it unless you've already had your sub-frame tear out, lol. Cuz it the regualr repair isn't cheap, I can imagine the horrific cost that would be, especially after the cost of importing the Type-R subframe.

[SilverY2KCivic]

The USDM ITR should have the same subframe as the JDM model, so importing costs shouldn't bew a factor. Also, is the ITR subframe welded in like the normal Teg subframe, or is it bolted in like how say 240SX subframes are?

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic

The USDM ITR should have the same subframe as the JDM model, so importing costs shouldn't bew a factor. Also, is the ITR subframe welded in like the normal Teg subframe, or is it bolted in like how say 240SX subframes are?

I could be wrong, since I haven't actually seen onein person, but I remember hearing that the CTR type-r sub-frame is welded in...again, I could be wrong, but that's what I remember hearing. If you find out for sure, let me know. I am not sure if the ITR is like that, I haven't heard, thought I'd assume it was also. Again, if you find out for sure, let me know. I'll see what I can dig up too. The USDM and JDM ITR should have the same sub-frame, but does it differ from the CTR sub-frame?

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

I could be wrong, since I haven't actually seen onein person, but I remember hearing that the CTR type-r sub-frame is welded in...again, I could be wrong, but that's what I remember hearing. If you find out for sure, let me know. I am not sure if the ITR is like that, I haven't heard, thought I'd assume it was also. Again, if you find out for sure, let me know. I'll see what I can dig up too. The USDM and JDM ITR should have the same sub-frame, but does it differ from the CTR sub-frame?

I'm pretty sure the ITR subframe should differ from the CTR one since the ITR is heavier, and the CTR is a hatchback. Could be wrong though.