c5 z06 vs skyline r34 gtr

[YogsVR4]

Out of the box, the Z06 come out on top. Sure, its not everyones cup of tea for styling and how it gets power to the pavement, but it is a world class performer.

As for mods - its all about how much money you have. They are both potential monsters so that just comes down to the $$$$.

[ZZII]

do u mean "out of the box" like stock or from a launch from a complete stop? Cause the Skyline has a better launch.

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by FYRHWK1

all laying into the throttle with an AWD car through the turn will get you is a face full of wall and some nice, big doctor bills. They beauty of RWD is that it lets the front wheels handle only turning, which makes sense since they see more lateral load then the rears. If you start to add power to them you'll be taking available grip from the maximum amount of lateral traction.

Meaning that if you're turning at 100% of the front tires grip, adding power to that will cause you to break traction, and no, traction control can not help this situation. Now if you want to add power without breaking traction, you have to use less of the tires traction on lateral friction, that means you can't turn as hard, aka taking a turn with less speed.

Now, I'm not saying that there's no gain to be found, but it's far from "laying on the throttle through the whole turn", it's more like being able to hit the gas earlier, but having an earlier apex isn't always possible given the way the car handles, so it all depends. I'm not even getting into the other discussion, until someone can post up a proven article of a STOCK R34 doing better then a 7:57 at the ring, I'm going to continue to believe what I believe now, of course i'm open to changing my mind, but i've searched for hours and come up with nothing.

you re probably thinkin of those average awd systems with traction control. awd skylines are based off of an rwd setup, like if you look at the engine, it has a longitudinal layout. they usually run on its rear wheels, and sends power to the front when necessary. it has a front to rear torque split of 0:100 to 50:50. its four wheel steering system has sensors in it that adjust the rear wheels, depending on wheel speed, and steering angle. its weight distribution is about even with the mustang cobra r of 57/43, so its really good for an awd car.

[Mr Payne]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

you re probably thinkin of those average awd systems with traction control. awd skylines are based off of an rwd setup, like if you look at the engine, it has a longitudinal layout. they usually run on its rear wheels, and sends power to the front when necessary. it has a front to rear torque split of 0:100 to 50:50. its four wheel steering system has sensors in it that adjust the rear wheels, depending on wheel speed, and steering angle. its weight distribution is about even with the mustang cobra r of 57/43, so its really good for an awd car.

His point is that the front wheels will apply power when the front wheels are already providing the maximum amount of traction available and therefore the front wheels will lose traction, making the car understeer.

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by Mr Payne

His point is that the front wheels will apply power when the front wheels are already providing the maximum amount of traction available and therefore the front wheels will lose traction, making the car understeer.

thats sounds more like what a fwd car would do. skylines are awd cars that perform like rwd cars. its system might send power like that to the front wheels if the rear end breaks lose, or loses traction, like in an oversteer to prevent spin out. if you floor it through a corner, it ll most likely oversteer, not understeer, thats why you can drift awd skylines, but yea its harder to drift than f/r, i mean its trying to grip itself to the road afterall.

[FYRHWK1]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

you re probably thinkin of those average awd systems with traction control. awd skylines are based off of an rwd setup, like if you look at the engine, it has a longitudinal layout. they usually run on its rear wheels, and sends power to the front when necessary. it has a front to rear torque split of 0:100 to 50:50. its four wheel steering system has sensors in it that adjust the rear wheels, depending on wheel speed, and steering angle. its weight distribution is about even with the mustang cobra r of 57/43, so its really good for an awd car.

When it sends 100% to the rear tires the car performs like a nose heavy RWD car, meaning it has no "AWD advantage". If while exiting a turn at 100% of its front grip, and the rear tires driving it, it sends power to the front wheels, the car WILL understeer EVERY time, doesn't matter what AWD system on what car, you cannot exceed 100% of your maximum grip wihtout losing traction. At 100% the tires are already slipping slightly, so we aren't simply talking about that happening either.

What all that means is that AWD's greatest advantage, laying down more power without spinning, is severely limited while exiting a turn, because unless he wants to understeer he'll be limited ot using the rear wheels to drive the car out of the turn, just like a corvette. If he isn't turning at 100% then he isn't carrying as much speed into the turn as he could, meaning he's now behind a car, even the same exact car, that went into the turn as fast as possible, and being in front during a turn is everything. So again, AWD has an advantage during racing, but it's far from anything amazing, since they turn poorer because of the large amount of extra unsprung weight it's more of a tradeoff.

[ZZII]

Hold up, it sounds like yall are talking about 4WD. Which it send power to the front wheels only when needed. Correct me if i'm worng, but i thought with AWD, all 4 wheels get the equal amount of power all the time.

[TatII]

what hes tryin to say is that, you cannot exceed the tires grip. once you hit 100% gripe in any tire. your at the limit. it is pointless to send more power to the tire at its limit of grip cause it will only casue it to break traction. so what fyrhwk said is that the AWD helps only if your not turning and using 100% of its grip. which means that if the vette is using all of its grip in rwd config, then that means the vette "should" theoretically out corner the GT-R. however, even though this point is true. i don't agree that this tells the whole story. if this is true for every RWD car, then basing it on this theory then a MUSTANG should be able to outhandle a GT-R as well. since its running on that theory. but of course in real life, those two cars just can't be compared.

[FYRHWK1]

Originally Posted by ZZII

Hold up, it sounds like yall are talking about 4WD. Which it send power to the front wheels only when needed. Correct me if i'm worng, but i thought with AWD, all 4 wheels get the equal amount of power all the time.

You're right, technically it's a 4WD setup, the skylines system is normally 100% RWD and can go up to 50% front if it senses slip.

Tat, the skyline can still out turn the mustang, it could carry enough speed into the turn for that without even needing AWD, but there's still an advantage to having the front wheels help, just not a huge one.

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by FYRHWK1

When it sends 100% to the rear tires the car performs like a nose heavy RWD car, meaning it has no "AWD advantage". If while exiting a turn at 100% of its front grip, and the rear tires driving it, it sends power to the front wheels, the car WILL understeer EVERY time, doesn't matter what AWD system on what car, you cannot exceed 100% of your maximum grip wihtout losing traction. At 100% the tires are already slipping slightly, so we aren't simply talking about that happening either.

What all that means is that AWD's greatest advantage, laying down more power without spinning, is severely limited while exiting a turn, because unless he wants to understeer he'll be limited ot using the rear wheels to drive the car out of the turn, just like a corvette. If he isn't turning at 100% then he isn't carrying as much speed into the turn as he could, meaning he's now behind a car, even the same exact car, that went into the turn as fast as possible, and being in front during a turn is everything. So again, AWD has an advantage during racing, but it's far from anything amazing, since they turn poorer because of the large amount of extra unsprung weight it's more of a tradeoff.

did you forget about its four wheel steering? the sensors that angles ther rear wheels work with its awd system to help it turn better. in any kind of drive wheels, if the outside wheels are made to turn faster than the inside ones, then it will turn better and sharper than without it, thats kinda how the skylines awd system works when cornering, with the help of four wheel steering. its system basically prevents understeer, or oversteer, and keeps it in line depending on steering angle, thats why it handles so well through corners.

you know that theres a rwd driver skyline too, and if you compare that to the awd skyline, the awd will just kill the rwd skyline. just shows how effective the awd system is.

have you seen a comparison between the 350z and the m3 on the track? the m3 got better numbers all around, and the 350z had more understeer, but the 350z kept lapping a little quicker than the m3. just shows that numbers, or the cars characteristics dont tell the whole story on a racetrack.

[Mr Payne]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

have you seen a comparison between the 350z and the m3 on the track? the m3 got better numbers all around, and the 350z had more understeer, but the 350z kept lapping a little quicker than the m3. just shows that numbers, or the cars characteristics dont tell the whole story on a racetrack.

And did you ever see the comparison/comparisons [yes, there is multiple] where the Z06 beats the 911 Turbo on the track?

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by Mr Payne

And did you ever see the comparison/comparisons [yes, there is multiple] where the Z06 beats the 911 Turbo on the track?

no... but what are you trying to say? my point was that the awd system on the skyline is very effective. im not suprised to hear that the z06 beat the 911 turbo, and i think the z06 faster around the track than the skyline just in case you didnt read my first post.

[Mr Payne]

That AWD doesn't own as much as you think it does.

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by Mr Payne

That AWD doesn't own as much as you think it does.

yea ok.... when did i say that it owned any car out there? i was talking about how the skylines awd system is very effective, and that just cause it has more weight in front doesnt mean its gonna be slower on the track, cause it kills the rwd skyline.

and also, i know its stock vs stock, but the z06 has around 100 hp more than the skyline gtr, i would really like to see how a skyline would do with similar horsepower to the z06.

[Kurtdg19]

One of the appealing reasons of wanting a skyline in my opinion is the great tunning capabilities it has. A skyline with 1,000hp is definatly achievable, and its much easier than most setups.