2003 Saturn VUE V6 (Cylinder 4 issue/emergency)STAY AWAY FROM BOSCH SPARK PLUGS

[neftv]

I am new to this forum and I sort of in an emergency. I need some opinion on my situation. Last Monday I was coming back from errand when my engine light came on and the engine started to studder and some intermittant rattling sounds coming from the engine and accelaration is decreased espcially trying to go over 35-40mph. The error code was showing a P0304 cylinder 4 misfired. I called up a local authorized saturn service center which turns out to be a Chevy dealer. They could not see till next week they are "booked up". I decided to go to a pep boys which took me on Thursday. They told me that spark plug 4 the center element of the plug blow out into the cylinder and they could not find it in the cylinder. They only replaced the plugs and the coil and told me they could not deal with this soft of issue and that the engine would need to be replaced, go to the dealer. Turns out that Bosch plugs where put in there. I do have a friend mechanic and he told me the same thing basically and was surprised that Saturn would put Bosch plugs in there because those plugs are just awful. Usually GM vehicles should have AC Delco or Champion plugs. Anyway my friend mechanic has a bad opinion of this particuliar engine those crappy Saab engines and his opinion is not worth rebuilding. The thing is that the engine was fine it was the crappy Bosch plug that failed in it. I always had the vehicle serviced at Saturn of Philadelphia now extinct. I certainly didn't put plugs in. I was routine with my service followed the book every 3000 miles. I still have the appointment set with the Chevy dealer for next Thursday (unbelieveable its that far off) but what can I do at this point in time?

[nette_282]

Its a 2003 and original plugs are in? The dealer put new Bosch plugs in? Hopefully you can find a class action law suit against Bosch, but if the plugs are 7 years old, not likely. I just noticed this was from November, what happened?

[neftv]

Originally Posted by nette_282

Its a 2003 and original plugs are in? The dealer put new Bosch plugs in? Hopefully you can find a class action law suit against Bosch, but if the plugs are 7 years old, not likely. I just noticed this was from November, what happened?

I ended up getting the Cylinder 4 head refurbuished and rebuilt from there up. Supposively the put a new water pump and timing belt in too.

Now its almost 2 years later and the engine is making the oil disappear rather more quickly as time goes on. I just had an oil change using the high mileage oil and I been using Lucas Oil treatment to try and slow down the allege burning of the oil. That oil treatment seems to help a little bit.
I just don't understand this oil disappearing because there is no leak on the pavement under the vehicle and I do not see the common white smoke in the rear exaust. Although the exaust has a fruity smell to it at times like on first start in the morning. Where is the oil really going? Is there any way to take care of this?
Judge from the low turnout on this forum I won't see any answer for a while if at all but if there is a change your reading this please ask around if you dont know how to reply.
I Still like this vehicle like the day I bought it new and I like to keep it going to 150k if I can. That is what the first ad's documented that this vehicle was capable of if anyone remembers that.

[trannyman52]

the oil is probably being burned in the engine,,,the cat converter will mask this issue by cleaning the emissions,,,just goes up in smoke,,except you can't see it !!!!!

[shorod]

Do you smell any burning oil when the engine is up to temperature? And how quickly is it using oil? I remember reading something from Saturn regarding oil use and it seemed like they consider something like 1 quart over 3000 miles as being within "normal" for their engines. A Saturn "regular" can probably correct me on my numbers there since I'm only visiting due to a chat discussion that pointed me this direction.

-Rod

[neftv]

Originally Posted by shorod

Do you smell any burning oil when the engine is up to temperature? And how quickly is it using oil? I remember reading something from Saturn regarding oil use and it seemed like they consider something like 1 quart over 3000 miles as being within "normal" for their engines. A Saturn "regular" can probably correct me on my numbers there since I'm only visiting due to a chat discussion that pointed me this direction.

-Rod

The smell is more of a fruity smell usually only on first start in the morning. I not seen blue gray smoke at temperature but maybe at first start in the morning. I just had oil changed like 300 miles ago and it was almost empty I put in 3 qts.

[neftv]

Originally Posted by trannyman52

the oil is probably being burned in the engine,,,the cat converter will mask this issue by cleaning the emissions,,,just goes up in smoke,,except you can't see it !!!!!

I thought about that too. Does that mean my Cat Converter will die a premature death because it's over working do to the allege extra oil burning going on?

[shorod]

Originally Posted by neftv

I just had oil changed like 300 miles ago and it was almost empty I put in 3 qts.

Had you checked the oil just after having it changed? Are you sure whomever changed the oil actually had it full? Before getting too excited I'd continue to monitor it daily and see if it still is using oil at that rate. Quite honestly if it's used 3 quarts in 300 miles, you're going to notice it somewhere, either on the ground, through the exhaust, or in the coolant. That would be an EXTREME rate to be going through oil. I don't think the exhaust could even burn it off fast enough to not see some on the ground or all over the underside of the engine at that rate.

-Rod

[neftv]

Originally Posted by shorod

Had you checked the oil just after having it changed? Are you sure whomever changed the oil actually had it full? Before getting too excited I'd continue to monitor it daily and see if it still is using oil at that rate. Quite honestly if it's used 3 quarts in 300 miles, you're going to notice it somewhere, either on the ground, through the exhaust, or in the coolant. That would be an EXTREME rate to be going through oil. I don't think the exhaust could even burn it off fast enough to not see some on the ground or all over the underside of the engine at that rate.

-Rod

Well I know the new oil was put in because I purchased it myself (Castrol High Mileage) and I went to my mechanic friend to do the service. I saw him put it in myself. 4 qts of oil and 1 qt of that Lucas Oil Treatment (thick stuff take a while to empty bottle).
I will check the coolant again but it looked normal to me before. And its not on the ground not even a drop. We had excessive heat here in Southeast PA past few weeks and I wonder if that has something to do with it? Does going over 70mph burn oil faster? Not that I commonly do this unless I am on a highway with nuts that particular day but it happens sometimes. My mechanic friend suggested I put the thicker oil in the engine to slow the burning which I did.

[neftv]

Something else that I forgot to mention.
Is it normal for oil dip stick to have a delay in true oil level indication? For example now even when its hot out I can go drive for 10 mins go to supermarket. When I park and shut engine off to go to check the oil level almost right away it will show empty but when I come out of shopping after a few mins (10-20 mins) it will show me the level of oil then?

[shorod]

I would not expect it to show empty right away, but certainly it will take some time for all the oil to drain back to the oil pan once the engine is shut off.

You mention that you went with a heavier oil, what weight of oil are you running now? Are you sure the dipstick is the correct dipstick for the car?

-Rod

[neftv]

Originally Posted by shorod

I would not expect it to show empty right away, but certainly it will take some time for all the oil to drain back to the oil pan once the engine is shut off.

You mention that you went with a heavier oil, what weight of oil are you running now? Are you sure the dipstick is the correct dipstick for the car?

-Rod

This time around I am using 20W-50 Castrol High Mileage. Prior to the oil change I was using 5W30 same make through the past winter. Always replacing one one quart for the Lucas Oil Treatment. Well the Dip stick is the one I always come to know if its wrong it would have been from the Factory or someone that worked on the car made it change. I just remember the stick always had the swirl at the end of it that how I remember it. I wouldn't know if it is the correct one or not I just know that I been using the same stick since the beginning.

[shorod]

Using 20W-50 seems pretty extreme an could very easily be the reason it's taking so long to read on the dipstick. If it's taking that long to drain back to the oil pan, it's not getting pumped to the top of the engine all that easily either and may actually be making the oil consumption issue worse (accelerating wear).

-Rod