Sienna Engine Sludge Problem

[waltrip]

I wanted to add my experience with my 1998 Sienna, purchased new and now with 158,000 miles.

I first noticed I had the sludge problem at about 50,000 miles when I noticed gelled oil (consistency of jello) just inside the area where new oil is added. There were no other indications, and I never saw any performance issues or "blue smoke", etc.

I had made regular oil changes with Pennzoil regular oil, but when I took it to the dealer, they and Toyota insisted there was something I was doing wrong. In any event, I paid $2000 for them to pull off the valve covers and the oil pan, which revealed no damage to the engine, and they also performed a flush of the engine. During the flush operation, they must have spilled something on my inside back floormats, because there were areas that looked like "trails" of liquid where the fiber appear to be chemically melted -- but the dealer denied this and refuse to take responsibility, even though I knew the mats were perfect when I took the vehicle in -- yet another bad experience to add to all the other bad experiences I have had with dealer arrogance and irresponsibility (but that is another story).

About a year after the above work, I received notice of coverage for this type of event, and sent in documentation of my oil changes, I received a check for $2000 from Toyota. I was told to continue using non-synthetic oil, and to be sure to change the oil every 3000 miles.

At about 75,000 miles my oil pressure light came on, flickering at first, and then on permanently, and I took it back to the dealer. They pulled the valve covers and oil pan again. The area under the valve cover looked perfect with no problems. However, the oil pan contained many little pieces of what appeared to be carbon deposits, and the oil pickup tube screen was covered with these same deposits. They appear as tiny little hard black pieces that will break if you press on them with your fingernail, and the size of a typical piece is a little smaller than diameter of a pencil lead, and there are hundreds of individual pieces.

The dealer cleaned out the oil pan, and flushed the pickup tube, and all was good. However, since then, like clockwork, every 30,000 miles or so (about 2 years or a bit longer) the problem returns. The second time, the oil pressure light came back on. Each time I did the work myself, pulling the oil pan and cleaning out the deposits from the pan bottom and the oil pickup tube screen. After the second time, I just began doing it every 2 years or so, and everything has been fine. The bottom line is that there is no permanent solution that Toyota recommends for this problem, it is simply inherent with this engine in some instances (obviously not all).

So mainly I just wanted to add my experience, and state that in many cases with the oil pressure light active, I suspect the problem is exactly what I have, and that all the other things a dealer may want to do will be fruitless and needlessly costly. Pulling the oil pan is a relatively simple and cheap operation (it takes me about 2 hours start to finish, and I don't have a lift) and it is simple to see whether the pickup tube screen is covered with deposits.

At 158,000 miles, my Sienna still has good acceleration, does not burn oil, and gets good MPG.

By the way, I live in Texas, with hot summers and mild winters, so any theory that says that the problem relates to cold weather is incorrect IMHO. Last, but not least, anyone who thinks this problem is due to not changing the oil frequently enough is just plain wrong -- I don't know what to say to them other than just search the web for people's experiences, many of them very careful to change their oil every 3,000 miles as I do, and the problem still occurs, and further Toyota has acknowledged the problem -- what more can you possibly want to accept something as the truth regardless of your personal experience?

I hope this helps anyone having this problem, since I assume that many affected Toyota vehicles will continue to live on for some years to come, many with new owners when the vehicles are sold.

[betterlife1]

We have been fighting with Toyota as one of our Toyota Sienna mobility vans has the sludge problem. It is still under warranty but Toyota will not do the repairs because the owner stated that he did not change the oil on the van. We a company that sells wheelchair accessible vans so this van is very critical to our customers needs but Toyota will not step up.

[javatrooper]

Have any of you performed your own engine flush on your engines? I have flushed many of my cars myself and have suffered no ill effects. I plan of buying a sienna soon and will do the same flush on it. Only cost 4-5 bucks and takes 2 minutes before and oil change. Seems like it might save a lot of trouble for everyone. Has anyone ever suffered a breakdown due to a flush? I know it can clog the pick-up screen if not done in idle or if there is too much sludge to begin with.

[wiswind]

If there is a lot of sludge, it can cause problems.....clogged oil passages and clogged oil pump pick-up screen.
I have used AutoRX, which is more gentle......and does work.
I would not assume that your Sienna has a sludge issue.

Take note that the baffel that you see when you remove the oil fill cap has a rough black coating that was put on at the factory......THIS is NOT sludge.

I have a 2003 and have pictures of what it looked like under the valve covers.......not any issue in my case.
My suggestion, if you buy a older Sienna would be to replace the valve cover gasket (at least the front one, which is much easier to do than the rear one).
This will give you the chance to see how clean things are up top.
If you replace the spark plugs......then the spark plugs and valve cover gaskets are a nice pair of jobs to do together.

VERY CRITICAL is to make sure that the PCV valve, located in the rear valve cover, is not clogged.
If that should become clogged, then it will cause sludge issues.

[lxi1]

Any info is good please; Doing research, Sienna, Rav 4 and Lexus RX 350 09, same motor.
All motors prone to gell. I purchared an 09 with 32k used with no records.
Burned 2 quarts in 500 miles. Smoked all times.
Did engine wash and put in Seafoam.
Doing much better now.
Changed oil 4 times.
Only smokes at start up.
Lexus wont touch it.
Is there any way to get Lexus to help on this?
Any ideas or help is great....

[ccheatha]

Proman,

If you're still around. I know it's been a while, but you'd asked if I would give you an update on the 2009 Sienna we bought. So... For oil, so far, so good. I have not noticed any engine problems at this point and we're at almost 60K miles. Yes, the oil changes have to be made at that particular dealership.

Here's what I've found about this whold deal though. The oil changes are free, but I think it's their trick to get people in as most customers will agree to the other items that they throw on the list to do. I fell for one of the items once and then decided to do some research. Everything was good the first couple of times I took it in - no charges, etc. They even washed the car for me and all. But then they started trying to add things that were not necessary - even items that were not on the regular schedule of things to do. One thing they charged me for once was changing the cabin filter. They charged like over $90.00 for that. I didn't even know what a cabin filter was at the time. After that first charge, I got on the net and checked it out. Found that I could buy the part myself and install it behind the glove box in like 1 minute. They had charged a full hour.

Anyway, the report is that the oil changes are all good, but you should only ask for the oil change and that's it. Man, what a racket delearships have going.

I'd like to hear if there are any other stories going on with this though.

[ccheatha]

Holy Buckets Waltrip,

I just read your post. Man, it sounds like you could have saved a lot of people some trouble with your solution. I wonder if my old 2003 would still be running had I had your advice back then.

Thanks for the post!