Best car out of Miata, 240SX, Subaru WRX STi, or BMW E30-E46?

[elemein]

So, I've been lurking around these forums for a little while (albeit, accountless), and the forum looks pretty good, with little spam or idiots, and just good, solid answers.

Anyway, I myself have a sort of big "automobile oriented" mind. I dont know how to describe it, but basicly ANY DAMN CAR I SEE while walking, I try to remember model, year, company, pros, cons, horsepower, etc. etc. and its almost like a disease xD So obviously I have a "dream car" that I want to own in the future and just have the most fun ever with (I'm sorta young right now, but been around cars all my life; my dad having more cars than birthdays probably, and being enthusiastic about the stuff), so when another car comes along being so awesome that it threatens what my dream car is, I go nuts.

So theres my problem. At first; it was all about the Subbie WRX STi. But it was expensive (I like to keep my dream cars WELL within reach), and while it had a LOT of fun and modifying potential, it just didnt have barrels and barrels of it.

Then the MX-5 came along. RWD. Cheap. A-grade handling. Not bulletproof reliability records- but ATOMIC WARHEAD-PROOF reliability, was a convertible, barrels and barrels of modifying potential, and was overall just amazing. But its a touch too small on the interior (not a extremely horrible thing, I am currently only 5'8".), and while the power can be upgraded super cheap to around 300 whp on the stock engine;the stock engine itself was just leaving something to be desired. Also- it had nice fuel economy. Not really important in a "only for fun, dream, and toy car", but hey. Its nice to have.

Then the 240sx. Had about the same things as the MX-5, except was a bit faster, a bit roomier, but had no convertable, was heavier, worse fuel economy (not a lot...), not as good handling as MX-5, and wasnt atomic-warhead proof reliable. But it was still a great idea in my head.

Then the BMW 3-series (E30-E46 years). Extremely refined, very good handling (not as good as the Miata), nice amount of horsepower, looked like sex pounded into steel (in my opinion Its suave, classy, and aggressive. Just my style), but the fuel economy hurt; the reliability hurt (it wasnt recorded as unreliable, just not as good as the other cars), the cost of parts hurt, and the overall well-rounded of the car seemed to edge something off in my head (not sure what). Also, it uses premium fuel (again, not a huge decrement, but it is different.)

So I'm currently trying to figure out which I like best; as a toy, fun, project, dream car. The cheaper the better, as I said before, I'm young, so the cheaper the car is, the sooner I'll get it (therefore, the longer I
ll have to enjoy it). I want a car that feels raw, quick, super-fun, has a big community, looks good (they all look good. And no, I do NOT think the Miata looks like a chick car; btw, I do NOT include the NEWEST Miata model in this thread, as it is too tame for my likes), and should just make me smile and feel proud everytime I drive it.

I'm more of a fan of circuit racing, autocross, rallying (hence why the Subbie was even there xD), drifting, and really, just any racing that includes turns. I dont mind drag-racing; it just isnt as exciting to me as a circuit.

So, what would you choose out of these four cars? Why? Any other help you could give me?

[elemein]

Oh yeah, and these wouldnt be dedicated track cars; probably about 80% of the their miles would be on-road miles. It's more of a "fun" car than anything I suppose. Just wanted to throw that out there so that people dont weigh too heavily on the track aspect.

[CivicSpoon]

Is this going to be your year round daily driver, or just a summer car? I'd suggest the STI for a year round car, and the Miata for a summer only car. The Miata just isn't a good car for winter (snow/ice) driving.

Beyond that, there are many other reason to pick the Miata over the STI, as well as many reasons to pick the STI over the Miata.
-The Miata is lighter, cheaper, plentiful (for used parts when needed), and easy to work on.
-The STI is AWD (better traction), faster, turbocharged from the factory, and IMO a nicer looking car.
-The Miata is also gutless in stock form, short interior (as you mentioned not a problem for you, but a 6ft+ person will have their head above the top of the windshield), and some people think of it as a girls car .
-The STI is more difficult to work on (with it's boxer engine), there are more parts to go wrong (turbocharge system), parts are a little more expensive, and they are much heavier (1000+ lbs).

I would recommend the Miata over the 240, because it'll likely be cheaper to purchase, and it's lighter. I also wouldn't recommend the BMW, pretty much at all. They are nice cars, but they are expensive, and over engineered. For example, if your blower motor happens to go, you HAVE to take it to a dealership, for them to reset or reprogram it to work again. That's nonsense.

[elemein]

Originally Posted by CivicSpoon

Is this going to be your year round daily driver, or just a summer car? I'd suggest the STI for a year round car, and the Miata for a summer only car. The Miata just isn't a good car for winter (snow/ice) driving.

Beyond that, there are many other reason to pick the Miata over the STI, as well as many reasons to pick the STI over the Miata.
-The Miata is lighter, cheaper, plentiful (for used parts when needed), and easy to work on.
-The STI is AWD (better traction), faster, turbocharged from the factory, and IMO a nicer looking car.
-The Miata is also gutless in stock form, short interior (as you mentioned not a problem for you, but a 6ft+ person will have their head above the top of the windshield), and some people think of it as a girls car .
-The STI is more difficult to work on (with it's boxer engine), there are more parts to go wrong (turbocharge system), parts are a little more expensive, and they are much heavier (1000+ lbs).

I would recommend the Miata over the 240, because it'll likely be cheaper to purchase, and it's lighter. I also wouldn't recommend the BMW, pretty much at all. They are nice cars, but they are expensive, and over engineered. For example, if your blower motor happens to go, you HAVE to take it to a dealership, for them to reset or reprogram it to work again. That's nonsense.

It would be a summer car; most likely rarely ever seeing snow or salt ever in its lifetime. (probably only if I'm having a snowcone in the car or some crazy foreign salt drink)

Ah, good to know; yeah, I always thought of the boxer engine as a double-sided blade; I love it's uniqueness, power, torque, and low vibrational values, but at the same time, it is a pain to work on since so few cars have boxer engines (Im not taking parts from a VW Beetle, and parts for a Porsche would be overpriced for just a subbie).

The STI is also worlds more expensive, as the STI line had only started much later than the Miata's and 240's and E30's, and it only really was a true, valuable "performance car" (atleast in my eyes) only by the time it got into the bug-eyed generations. Those alone are hard to find under 15k in good condition, and I absolutely dislike the look of the bug-eyes, so I'd have to opt for a newer model; even more expensive.

But the question is: Is the STI just as fun, or even more fun than the Miata/240/BMW around the track and on the road? Or is it just barrels of fun when you're in bad road conditins or offroading?

And I wouldnt really count the 240sx price gap as a real gap. I can find an amazing condition 240 for 7k, and an amazing Miata for the same price; personally, I think they're about the same price gap.

The BMW is likewise for the sticker price, it's a little more expensive, but can be found cheap as well. The thing you did mention correctly was that they are more expensive to maintain as BMW parts are notoriously more expensive.

But how come if something on the BMW goes wrong that you HAVE to take it to a dealership? I've heard countless stories of people maintaining and modifying their BMW from their garage. May I get some closure as to how their overengineered or that they need dealership-repairs if they break?

[CivicSpoon]

The STI will be fun to drive, regardless of the conditions. The fact that it has the power it does, makes it fun from a stop, straight line, and around corners. As far as being as much fun, or more fun, it depends on preference. I recommend giving all the cars you're interested in a test drive. You may find that you prefer a rwd or awd over the other.

Only certain things are going to need a trip to the dealership, certainly not everything. The blower motor was the only example I've ever personally experienced, while working on one. It was also only the 2nd time I've ever worked on one (both on the same one, a late '90s 328i). I'm assuming it's mostly things that are electronically controlled. Check out the documentary from CNBC called "BMW: A Driving Obsession". The company pretty much admits that their cars are over engineered (not necessarily a bad thing). They have an employee who sits in front of a car, with a keyboard and sound equipment, to create a cars unique door-ajar tone. But this is just my own person opinion. I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of BMW owners may disagree with me

But like I said, I recommend weighing the cost of each car, and more importantly, test drive each one. That's the only way to really see which car suits your needs.

[elemein]

Originally Posted by CivicSpoon

The STI will be fun to drive, regardless of the conditions. The fact that it has the power it does, makes it fun from a stop, straight line, and around corners. As far as being as much fun, or more fun, it depends on preference. I recommend giving all the cars you're interested in a test drive. You may find that you prefer a rwd or awd over the other.

Only certain things are going to need a trip to the dealership, certainly not everything. The blower motor was the only example I've ever personally experienced, while working on one. It was also only the 2nd time I've ever worked on one (both on the same one, a late '90s 328i). I'm assuming it's mostly things that are electronically controlled. Check out the documentary from CNBC called "BMW: A Driving Obsession". The company pretty much admits that their cars are over engineered (not necessarily a bad thing). They have an employee who sits in front of a car, with a keyboard and sound equipment, to create a cars unique door-ajar tone. But this is just my own person opinion. I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of BMW owners may disagree with me

But like I said, I recommend weighing the cost of each car, and more importantly, test drive each one. That's the only way to really see which car suits your needs.

Ah, I personally like cars with more oversteer than understeer (not oversteer where it becomes and uncontrollable mess, or where spinning out becomes ludicriously common), I hate the understeer of these modern day crossovers and such (FWD mainly, but AWD too) , I shouldnt have to turn the steering wheel 4 times just to get the wheels to a 75 degree angle. Obviously this is more of a steering problem than a suspension problem, but obviously under speed or activity, (in which steering, suspension, and drive systems operate in unison) the AWD of FWD car will have less nimbleness than a RWD car (usually. Obviously exceptions exist like the Toyota Celica).

That being said, you're right, the best way for me to understand how a car would drive owuld be to drive one myself; but I personally like lighter cars, that have a more closed-in cabin; kind of like the cabin of an RX-8 or a C6 Corvette, those suit me quite cozily. Even just the cabins of the Acura RSX or Mustang GT feel almost like they have too much "free space" (which its nice to have space, but why have tons of space in the cabin in a performance coupe??? Completely void of sense...) and you wouldnt feel every tug of the car's suspension. I like cars with a lower centre of gravity, and to feel closer to the drive wheels and engine; I do not want 100s of shiny electronic gadgets between me and the road, I want the raw feeling in everything I do; and I want to notice the difference that I make everytime I modify the car in a certain way personally.

Though I guess that whole paragraph sort of rules out the STi doesnt it? The STi is heavy, and has more understeer than a RWD (even though it has a 30/70 electronically controlled transmission for drive wheels), but it also has a higher centre of gravity than the 240, Bimmer, and Miata, and also has lots of these techno gadgets that I just plain dont want; I dont really know the full reason why Im so allured to the WRX STi, but its mainly because of its uniqueness (being a Subaru; boxer engine; AWD on all models since the 90s; rally proven), and it's AWD systems that just seem to mesh much better than other companies' AWD systems (atleast thats what I feel from riding in one AWD system and other AWD systems).

I really never thought of the STi from the perspective of "what kind of car do I like" rather than "what can the car do" which is what I used to look at it from. Thanks, I'm sort of thinking that the Miata might be a better fit, or even the two other alternative choices.

Also, I havent seen that video about the Bimmer, but I'll get right to it after this response. You mentioned that anything that was computer controlled would usually have to be dealership managed; but, aside from the tyres, suspension, and manual transmissions, isnt everything else in the car monitored or controlled by a computer in some way? Therefore wouldnt most of the modifying I do to the cars need to go through the dealership in some way? Im not sure I'd really like that; but is that a true assumption? Or am I overanalyzing it?

[1bbcd5]

Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.

[elemein]

Originally Posted by 1bbcd5

Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.

The pic doesnt work, whatever the hell it was you were trying to post.