My 1000th post----- The whereabouts of GTR 04R?

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by cabrio92

Martin I like to share information and passion especially with our prefered car.

I don't understand your last sentence, uu mean the car will go out ? Why because it was kept secret since 14 years ?

Phil

As in, keeping our fingers crossed, if we are lucky, someday it may make a public appearance. It would be a great shame if it,s allways kept tucked away in his private collection.

Perhaps the promoters of the Retromobile in Paris, could persuade LOJ to display his unique collection of historic race cars, just a thought .

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

Did anyone find #04R yet?

>8^)
ER

Yes .

Well at least I think I have and yes it was used in the last round of the 96 JGTC.

[cabrio92]

Very interesting Martin

Do you think it is for sale..?

Phil

[Sami Aaltonen]

Thanks Martin new information!
Hope we can see the #04R soon. Really looking forward it.

[Le Man]

No, its not for sale Phil, I doubt if McLaren will ever sell it, but you never know .

Yes Sami, it would be good if McLaren put it out on public display sometime soon, but don,t hold your breath

I,d like to thank DocGTR for questioning my logic and pulling my theories apart in earlier threads, well done my friend I have been wrong all along .

Check out Bucciali,s excellent scans in this thread, 04R has been staring us in the face all along, one detail is a dead give away (not unless I,m wrong again )

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...907772&page=12

[DocGTR]

This has been a very good thread, so a BIG Thank You Le Man for starting it and now quite putting it to the bed. Also thanks for Erik backing up some of my assumptions/theories. For me this was the last big unsolved puzzle about the GTRs (still some smaller popping out of the bushes). During this we also got the confirmation about the state of the 15R (thanks Thomas!), so it has been quite informative thread overall.

At some point during this thread developing I did quite an intensive search on the possibilities of the other chassis to replace the damaged 14R in the Mine race, and only other options would have been 10R and 17R that I couldn't find anything about them near the actual race, but the other inconsistencies, as noted earlier in this thread, made them not so believable options (at least to me). 16R and 18R had their show rounds around the Europe and 18R was also quite soon to race in Brazil. 17R was most propably making similar show rounds in North America but I couldn't find any dates to them. So for me all that left the 04R as the only real option after all to be the Mine #61 LARK.

I hope someday the history of 04R between the Jarama crash and the race at Mine will be clarified and how much of the original 04R is left in this rebuilt version. Also it would be nice to see a photo of its actual chassis plate! I guess it's too much asked to see it making a public appearance in the near future, but at least we have nice photos of its glory days!

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by DocGTR

This has been a very good thread, so a BIG Thank You Le Man for starting it and now quite putting it to the bed. Also thanks for Erik backing up some of my assumptions/theories. For me this was the last big unsolved puzzle about the GTRs (still some smaller popping out of the bushes). During this we also got the confirmation about the state of the 15R (thanks Thomas!), so it has been quite informative thread overall.

At some point during this thread developing I did quite an intensive search on the possibilities of the other chassis to replace the damaged 14R in the Mine race, and only other options would have been 10R and 17R that I couldn't find anything about them near the actual race, but the other inconsistencies, as noted earlier in this thread, made them not so believable options (at least to me). 16R and 18R had their show rounds around the Europe and 18R was also quite soon to race in Brazil. 17R was most propably making similar show rounds in North America but I couldn't find any dates to them. So for me all that left the 04R as the only real option after all to be the Mine #61 LARK.

I hope someday the history of 04R between the Jarama crash and the race at Mine will be clarified and how much of the original 04R is left in this rebuilt version. Also it would be nice to see a photo of its actual chassis plate! I guess it's too much asked to see it making a public appearance in the near future, but at least we have nice photos of its glory days!

Thanks DocGTR, yes it has been a very interesting thread, even though I started it myself . I,ll think of something just as interesting for my 2000th post .

After studying Bucciali,s excellent scans in technical detail for some while, it dawned on me that this article was post season and the pit board states 96 champions. so the two chassis have to be 13R (60) and 04R (61) not long after the Mine race if the DA race history poster is correct.

Not sure if we will ever get to see its chassis plate, check out the main interior pic, the steering wheel has JN DB drivers initials, there is a panel/duck tape masking the view of the plate, shades of 01R But the dead give away was the engine bay pic, the two 96 spec bulkhead window mouldings are "riveted" and bonded into position. Now if anybody can show me a 96 spec GTR with the same rivet configuration, please do . Most of 04R (61) looks to be be 96 spec, so one would presume, that all that remains from the original 04R GTR is just the repaired monocoque.

Also DocGTR, you mentioned in an earlier post something about the thickness of the race numbers, take another look, you may find something very interesting.

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by Le Man

I have been wrong all along

Welcome to the club!

Great thread all the way through, but especially when I called it on post #2.

>8^)
ER

[DocGTR]

Thanks Le Man pointing out the differences! I was just revisiting that article Bucciali scanned and the photos of 13R on the Motorsport in Detail CD but didn't get that far. I had in mind that it must be some structural differences and the engine bay was one of my interests too, as well as cockpit and the front bulk head. BTW here are the photos for comparison of the engine bays (13R and 04R):



#61 on the right side seems to match very well the video clip of the car crossing the finish line at Mine as well as the picture you posted in post #45. 14R seemed to have the numbers thicker and closer together in most of the races. This image show how those numbers were normally on the LARKs (14R and 13R):



That's also how it shows to be on 04R now as seen those photos of the McLaren Cars book so they have changed them at some point, maybe something else too (see turn indicators!).

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by DocGTR

BTW here are the photos for comparison of the engine bays (13R and 04R):

Definite thanks to both of you for the brain power required to solve this one. I looked closely at those images in the scans of the car in pieces for some sort of additional clues back when they were posted, but completely glazed over that very little, but very telling detail.

>8^)
ER

[hurstg01]

The details you guys have looked in to to solve this have amazed me - well done!

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

Welcome to the club!

Great thread all the way through, but especially when I called it on post #2.

>8^)
ER

Its a pleasure to be a member of the club .

What,s really funny , is that this Japanese magazine has been in the public domain since March 97 Another Brunei LM senario!!

Sometimes, we cannot see the wood from the tree,s

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by Le Man

Its a pleasure to be a member of the club .

What,s really funny , is that this Japanese magazine has been in the public domain since March 97 Another Brunei LM senario!!

Sometimes, we cannot see the wood from the tree,s

Sometimes I struggle to even see the forest

[DocGTR]

For all those who are interested in the details I gathered a gallery of the short tail GTR engine bays especially trying to show the "windows" between the cockpit and engine bay. In the '95 GTRs the windows of the road cars were still there but they were usually hidden under the heat shield that in the '96 GTRs was missing as also the window and replaced by carbon fiber wall. So here are the pictures of 01R, 02R, 03R (95&96), 05R, 06R (95&96), 07R, 08R, 10R, 11R, 12R, 15R, 16R, 17R and 18R. Interesting differences!

[hurstg01]

To fill in the gaps -

#04R (best I had....)



and now this one - #04R




#13R