What the heck is this?

[beardancing2]

Hi.
This is my first post. Let me start by thanking everyone for the great information I have already gleaned from other posts. They have help me get as far as I have. Perhaps someone could help me the rest of the way (or at the very least, point me in the right direction and give me a kick).

Here's what I'm dealing with: 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager, 3.3 cyl., V-6. 130,000+ miles.
Major maintainence within the last 12 months: water pump and steering "rack" replaced.
Problem: Intermintent starting problems. A couple of weeks ago, engine wouldn't turn over when keyed. Single "click" heard,then nothing. Turned back key and tried again.
3rd time, engine turns and starts. Over last 2 weeks, has gotten progressively worse, when it happens. Till now,when it does it all the time.

Steps taken so far: Logged on to this forum and looked for similar problems/answers (lots of great info, thanks!)
Manipulated gear shift lever-no difference
Inspected battery terminal connections and fuses-all good
Swapped out relays, 3 different ones-no difference
Multi-metered battery- all good 12.5v across
Banged Head on dash while turning key- no difference, slight headache.
Inspected wiring harnesses and connections- found the following:
Wiring harness below battery and above transmission was not secured to frame. the protective wrapping was brittle and cracked. It appears to have made contact with the oil pan and been subjected to heat. Further inspection revealed a severely corroded connection at the transmission (I think), so corroded in fact that it came right out when pulled. ( I tried to post pictures but couldn't, haven't figured that one out yet). It was connected via a 2 wire snap on connector (wires looked like green/wht and blue) The receiving end (which looks as though it threads into the body of the transmission) is corroded as well. The "sensor" looks similar to a spark plug but is wrapped with bare copper wire around the bottom with about a 1/4 inch long, round metal "contact"on the end. There was a buildup of corrosion all around it very similar in appearance to what you find on dirty battery terminals.
Question:What is this and could its obvious deteriorated condition have contributed to the original problem?
Note: the corrosion appears to have been caused by a leaking battery. Although it didn't appear very dirty (the posts were perfectly clean), I decided to spray it down with battery cleaner/leak detector. it showed battery acid on top well as a small amount running down the sides.
Question: As the battery is holding its charge and otherwise functions properly, does it need to be replaced, or is there a way to repair its leaks? (looks like its seeping out from under the caps)

I'll try to post pics to this as soon as I figure it out.
Than ks,
Hal aka Bear-Dancing.

[MagicRat]

Welcome to AF.

Yes, poor/corroded wiring can produce the problems you describe. Have you repaired the wires? Does it start?

Batteries might seep if they are being overcharged. If or when it starts, use a multimeter to check the battery voltage while the engine is running. It should read 13.7 to 14.5 volts. If its more than this, the voltage regulator (inside the alternator) is probably defective. You can also try load-testing the battery. Some auto parts shops will do this for you for free.

If you fix all the wiring and still have the starting problem, the starter motor or solenoid may be bad. Try hitting the starter motor with a hammer when a friend turns the key and see if that produces results.

[RIP]

Your corroded disintegrated sensor sounds like it could be the output speed sensor. It's on the far right side of the transmission facing front, has two wires lt green/wht and dk blu/blk. It won't effect starting but will effect the speedometer and shifting.

Like MagicRat it sounds to me like your starter solenoid is giving up. The starter and solenoid are combined in a single unit. Besides taping it you could remove the starter and have it tested free at many parts stores. You can change the solenoid contacts for half the price of a new starter. They will also load test the battery for free. Again, water seeping out the caps sounds like it's overfilled or overheating likely due to a failed voltage regulator. Test as MagicRat suggested. Unfortuanately, your voltage regulator is not in the alternator but in the powertrain control module, better known as the PCM.

[Bear]

Sounds like a bad starter, mine did what you describe and I ended up replacing the starter, one year later no problems. Starters are not too expensive $70.00-$90.00 US.

[beardancing2]

Thank You for the replies.
I got the thing torn apart and discovered the following.
The battery was definitely leaking. Acid destroyed the protective wrap protecting the main wiring harness, a strip of which was wrapped around part of the frame keeping said wiring harness from swinging down and making contact with the engine, which it did, baking part of it as well.
You don't usually see ceviche and flambe on the same plate. F***in Marvelous.
Got a new speed sensor and installed that after cleaning all the residual corrosion from the surrounding area.
I removed all of the damaged wrapping form the wiring.
Inspection of the wires and various terminal connectors showed most of the wiring unaffected with a couple of exceptions. A couple of the wires have areas of cracked insulation that are far from any terminals.I'll splice new wire in, no problem.

The part i am worried about is where the wires are similarly damaged right next to several of the connectors. The insulation isn't cracked through, I cant see any actual wire exposed, but the insulation does feel "hard". It is not brittle. My concern is that it could become brittle and fail if simply cleaned. The connectors themselves show a little cosmetic damage to the outer areas, but the insides look perfect. Normally, I would cut off first few inches of the wires and reconnect to the connectors.In this case, I don't think there is enough "slack" in the wires to do so without causing problems.

Question: would it be feasible to use a liquid electrical wire insulator (wrap) to reinforce the hardened wire insulation where they enter the connectors so as to isolate current form jumping between the wires should any of them deteriorate further?

Question: Will a bench testing battery reveal whether or not the leaking is caused by the battery itself?

I plan on running the other tests mentioned after I get it put back together. I'll probably pull the starter as well and have it tested (or at the very least, check the contacts). In the old days I used to just clean the points of contact wth emmory cloth unless they were baked.

Any other thoughts and observations would be appreciated. I will post back when I get further into it.

Thanks again,
Hal

[beardancing2]

Oh yeah,
Another question. Can the voltage regulator be replaced independently of the PCM,
or would I have to replace the PCM if that is the problem?

[Bear]

Interesting. When I bought my '96 3.3 liter new it took a new battery every year as the MOPAR batteries leaked through the case, enough to take out the cruise control wiring and tubing and deteriorate the air filter box. After the second battery, I went on my own and purchased an after market battery and no further problems (I still own the car). First post I have seen on this issue in a long long time.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by beardancing2

Oh yeah,
Another question. Can the voltage regulator be replaced independently of the PCM,
or would I have to replace the PCM if that is the problem?

The voltage regulator circuit is integral to the PCM. You'll have to change the PCM if it's bad. You're a ways from that yet though.

[jpb53]

If the connectors are damaged then a junk yard for the harness ends might be a possibility. Also this link is another if you can match up what you might need.
http://starparts.chrysler.com/starli...kits/index.htm
Acid damage to a harness is no fun. Go slow and do 1 wire at a time. Make sure you heat shrink all splices. Mopar heat shrink is very good for this as it has glue inside to help seal the repair.

[mikefaster]

Like another person posted, that loud "Click" is usually the starter... Whenever one starts to do that in one of my vans (I'll buy, sell, fix, donate them to another family member often), I will buy a BRAND NEW one off ebay for like $60 delivered and keep it in my van until the old one completely craps out or I have the time to change it out... You usually can crank it over repeatively up to 10 or even 20 times and you'll get one last "crank" out of it if you're stranded... I have seen people "do" the repeated cranking procedure for ONE MONTH... Then these poeple wonder why the starter gets stuck and keeps cranking until it nearly sets the car on fire, lol!