Liberty's Gears Tremec Options

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by boothkc

Kel,
I looked at their site and am confused. Are you looking at the 600 with "face plating" as being similar to a "dog box"? I thought these were clutchless units (at least on upshifts). Liberty says that the face plated 600 require clutch use etc.

Which unit are you looking at. I'd love a better, faster shifting trans for the GTS.

cheers,
Kevin

Kevin, yes I am looking at the TKO600 with the "faceplate" conversion. I had never heard of the term "faceplate" before. This style of engagement is what I am used to seeing called "dog engagement".

Either way, this style of gearbox changes much more quickly and is far more positive on shifts than a synchro box. I was stunned the first time I drove my classic racer with a Jerico installed. I always used the clutch still with the Jerico but it was still a lot faster box to change. I am not sure that clutchless boxes are a good option for our level of racing due to likely servicing costs of not just the box, but also the remainder of the drive train due to shockloading.

The only downside of a dog engagement box is that if you select the wrong gear, it will go in, where as a sychro box will baulk and stop you from getting it wrong most times.

Kel.

[Panoz26]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

Devin, the issues you are having are not likely to be related to power you are putting through the box. They are more likely to be related to shifter issues, clutch setup or adjustment, clutch/flywheel mass (light and decelerating quickly) or some other more obscure issue such as alignment.

Kel.

Hmm.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Hmm.

Devin, I know they will take 390 rwhp+ & 390 rwtq as that is what the 347 is chucking at my 3550 with no obvious issues as yet. Yes the synchro's are getting a work out requiring rev matching, but then who knows how many hours of track time the box has seen. I would guess at 40+.

I think Brian Goldburg may also have run a 3550 for a while behind his 427 prior to upgrading it to TKO600 internals so thats a 450 rwhp test.
He may be able to confirm.

Kel.

[panozracing]

Kel is correct. We ran our 3550 for years as a stock GTS then with a 396 stroker and sometime during blowing up the 396's engine and going to a 427 the tranny ate itself and was rebuilt with better internals. it got real confusing with engine and tranny swaps and we didnt take notes.

[Panoz26]

Good Information - so, now I ask for advice.
Since I am having some shifting issues do I do these steps first to try and determine cause:
1.) remeasure and re-shim for the TO Leak
2.) fix the shift bar issue being loose (I have the new bolts and washer's from Panoz
3.) Drive and see if that corrects

Or:
Do I take the tranny (and car) to a shop and have them adjust for mis-alignment or possible "rebuild"

Either way, it's a fairly simple task, however, time consuming, which as of late, I seem to have less of.

Appreciate any input.
Devin

[panozracing]

i have had same issues in the past and currently a small complaint as well. It has always been clutch related. make sure your TO is right. Make sure the clutch is right with plenty of meat on the plates. make sure you replace all the bearings in the shift linkage.

My bearings were ruined and I re-grease them yearly. I am currently relating my current shifting issues to possible worn friction plates. so I am pulling next weekend to see otherwise i am rebuilding tranny. Misaligned and poor clutch design is my fear if a rebuild is in order.

[Paul Buxe]

When I first got my Panoz, I had shifting issues. I took the system apart and there were some issues with the parts. Wanting to use the KISS process (keep it simple, stupid) in place, I replaced the remote system with a simple Hurst shift lever. I was about the 12" long shifter, and I was a little worried about the long lever movement, but the direct movement with the trany was a great pay off. Now I have direct shifting and never miss a shift. If anyone is interested I can supply the Hurst part number.
Now that I have installed an LS2 engine and been able to move the engine and trany back 2" in the car, I have made the shifter 2" shorter and it worked even better.
Paul

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Good Information - so, now I ask for advice.
Since I am having some shifting issues do I do these steps first to try and determine cause:
1.) remeasure and re-shim for the TO Leak
2.) fix the shift bar issue being loose (I have the new bolts and washer's from Panoz
3.) Drive and see if that corrects

Or:
Do I take the tranny (and car) to a shop and have them adjust for mis-alignment or possible "rebuild"

Either way, it's a fairly simple task, however, time consuming, which as of late, I seem to have less of.

Appreciate any input.
Devin

Devin, you are defintely on the right track with your items 1 - 3 above. Start with the simple and inexpensive stuff first.

Brians feedback is on the money, most gearbox shift problems are either clutch or shifter related.

Kel.

[Panoz26]

My clutch is BRAND NEW - so, I don't think that's it.... Im going with all shifter related issues.

Devin

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

My clutch is BRAND NEW - so, I don't think that's it.... Im going with all shifter related issues.

Devin

Dont overlook the clutch Devin, you absolutely need to ensure that with the pedal at full travel you are achieving sufficient air gap between the clutch plates and flywheel & pressure plate. If you are not, the plates will "drag" and you will have shift problems!! Most clutches and hydraulic release kits come with a good procedure for this adjustment. If you dont have this info, let us know as there are a couple of ways of doing this.

Kel.

[panozracing]

Even with a brand new clutch (all of the parts new) I still had shifting issues. The Mcleod dual friction clutch is supposed to handle over 750hp and I have the road race upgrade. It was expensive. All of my issues are because of the clutch. I am about to give up on it and get another brand/type. I have had the pressure plate crack 4 times between the 2 cars. Mcleod says its installing wrong. claiming the pressure plate is cocked on the flywheel pins or something like that. But after the first wrecked one I have been EXTREMELY careful with the install and i am now thinking the setup is a POS. When I pull it apart next weekend I will know more.

Deven, just because its new dont rule it out. Where talking alignment in the thousandths of an inch. If the pressure plate is stuck slightly crooked on the flywheel pins you have shifting issues and the tranny can eat itself. I wish someone could tell me a package that is easy to install, works well, and will handle 500 FWHP.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

Even with a brand new clutch (all of the parts new) I still had shifting issues. The Mcleod dual friction clutch is supposed to handle over 750hp and I have the road race upgrade. It was expensive. All of my issues are because of the clutch. I am about to give up on it and get another brand/type. I have had the pressure plate crack 4 times between the 2 cars. Mcleod says its installing wrong. claiming the pressure plate is cocked on the flywheel pins or something like that. But after the first wrecked one I have been EXTREMELY careful with the install and i am now thinking the setup is a POS. When I pull it apart next weekend I will know more.

Deven, just because its new dont rule it out. Where talking alignment in the thousandths of an inch. If the pressure plate is stuck slightly crooked on the flywheel pins you have shifting issues and the tranny can eat itself. I wish someone could tell me a package that is easy to install, works well, and will handle 500 FWHP.

Brian, thats an easy one.........!! Just bite the bullet and fit a winch to your trailer so you dont have to slip your clutch loading anymore. Then buy yourself a Tilton, Quartermaster or RAM 7.25" dia tripple plate. If all machining is done properly you will not have issues.

These clutches will take 1000ftlbs of torque and drop the moment of inertia behind the engine considerably. This is pretty much the standard over here for circuit raced V8 powered cars with 400+hp.

Now what are you waiting for...........!!

Kel.

[panozracing]

nothing i guess.....the stock GTS quartermaster clutch isnt the same thing right?

Do i need a new snout on the tranny or bellhousing changes or anything like that? I am sure I can ebay the mcloed. I hope I can still use the mcloed TO since it was $350.

I wonder if I can take the stacker trailers tailgate winch and mount a pulley inside the trailer and use it to pull the car in...hmmmmm

Ok Ok...im on it....

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

nothing i guess.....the stock GTS quartermaster clutch isnt the same thing right?

Do i need a new snout on the tranny or bellhousing changes or anything like that? I am sure I can ebay the mcloed. I hope I can still use the mcloed TO since it was $350.

I wonder if I can take the stacker trailers tailgate winch and mount a pulley inside the trailer and use it to pull the car in...hmmmmm

Ok Ok...im on it....

Cant say I've seen a stock GTS Quartermaster clutch Brian. It is a single plate 8.5" or 9.5" dia clutch isnt it? If so, the tripple plate is a different animal altogether (I posted a picture not long back of my clutch flywheel setup).

You should be able to get away with the tranny snout as these are tranny specific, perhaps the TO as well.

Kel.

[boothkc]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

Cant say I've seen a stock GTS Quartermaster clutch Brian. It is a single plate 8.5" or 9.5" dia clutch isnt it? If so, the tripple plate is a different animal altogether (I posted a picture not long back of my clutch flywheel setup).

You should be able to get away with the tranny snout as these are tranny specific, perhaps the TO as well.

Kel.

Here is the current Panoz GTS 8.5" Quartermaster: http://www.racingclutches.com/product.phtml?p=42

It uses a hydraulic TO bearing on the input housing that is a "mother" to get the clearances correct. We had to pull the trans 4x to get the shims right. Works great now, but very unforgiving if you don't match revs. Easy to upset the car and takes some skill. Not great for parking in the trailer either.

The GTRA uses a standard Ford HD clutch such as in a Mustang or truck. Simple to shift and plenty of slip if needed. Easy to adjust too.

Kevin