Liberty's Gears Tremec Options

[NZGTRA17]

Have any of you had any experience with Liberty's Gears transmissions?

I see that they offer a dog engagement Tremec TKO600 for what seems to me to be a very reasonable price ($2,750). This includes internal mods to several other areas of the trans.

Thoughts?

Kel.

[eric1h]

Kel, buy me one and I'll test it for you, so you don't waste your money having it shipped all the way to NZ :-D

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

Kel, buy me one and I'll test it for you, so you don't waste your money having it shipping all the way to NZ :-D

Nice one Eric!

Wouldnt I have to get a Ford powered car to test the tranny for me though.........do ya reckon that LS thingy would have enough grunt to give it a decent work out and test it properly?!

Kel.

[Blue Streak 21]

Kel;
That's a good price. I put a TKO600 ($2k) behind my 347 motor this past winter. The 3550 was having big issues with the syncros in 3rd and 2nd. Have had no issues with the new tranny, but haven't put that many hours on the car either. I stayed with the cable clutch system. Stiff, but managable for sprint races. That reminds me I need to fine tune the clutch adjustment. Had a couple of down shifts that were not as smooth as they should have been. Could have been the loose nut behind the wheel....

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Blue Streak 21

Kel;
That's a good price. I put a TKO600 ($2k) behind my 347 motor this past winter. The 3550 was having big issues with the syncros in 3rd and 2nd. Have had no issues with the new tranny, but haven't put that many hours on the car either. I stayed with the cable clutch system. Stiff, but managable for sprint races. That reminds me I need to fine tune the clutch adjustment. Had a couple of down shifts that were not as smooth as they should have been. Could have been the loose nut behind the wheel....

Yes, I like the value for money that this option could provide Jerry.

My main reason for looking at dog engagement options is that with the light flywheel and tripple plate clutch in my car it is hard work for the synchro's to keep up, particularly on 4 - 3 and 3 - 2 downshifts. The light mass on the back of the engine means it decelerates very quickly creating to bigger mismatch for the synchro's to keep up with.

This issue will only be exacerbated by the Dart block based combo that I am putting together over the coming months. This is an 8.2 deck block 369 cube solid roller cam engine and 7,000+ rpm capable. Initial power level with current heads etc will be around 520 - 540hp and 480 - 490 ftlbs of torque. 600hp and 500+ ftlbs of torque is just a head swap away (bigger inlet runners).

I see a dog engagement setup as being the best match for this type of combo and the Liberty TKO600 provides a direct bolt in with dog enagement for say 50% of the cost of converting to the likes of a Jerico. Plus you have the benefit of 5th gear. Jerico make a 5 speed but this is more $$ again.

Kel.

[Blue Streak 21]

Yup. that sounds like the hot set up. I looked at dog ring boxes, but the Jericos were like $10 k when was all said and installed. Too steep for my racing budget. If I'd known about the tranny you found, it would have been worth the added $600. Nice find.

I changed to an aluminum flywheel when I put in the 347, and you're correct that it decells fast. I just try and match rev's on down shifts, and don't jam it in there too hard too often. But in the heat of battle, it goes in regardless, and that doesn't mean longevity for syncros.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Blue Streak 21

Yup. that sounds like the hot set up. I looked at dog ring boxes, but the Jericos were like $10 k when was all said and installed. Too steep for my racing budget. If I'd known about the tranny you found, it would have been worth the added $600. Nice find.

I changed to an aluminum flywheel when I put in the 347, and you're correct that it decells fast. I just try and match rev's on down shifts, and don't jam it in there too hard too often. But in the heat of battle, it goes in regardless, and that doesn't mean longevity for syncros.

Yes, I found when installing a Jerico in my last car Jerry that you need quite a wide trans tunnel to provide clearance for the shift arms/levers and shifter. Some of the later design NASCAR boxes with internal rail shifters would help this but they are big $$$.

The synchro issue on down changing with lighter flywheel/clutch mass is interesting. With the tripple plate and light flywheel I am running, you simply cannot select 3rd or 2nd on a downchange without rev matching. I though this was just synchro degredation but on thinking back, my last car was the same with a fresh synchro trans until we put the Jerico in it.

I have found this fine on some tracks, but I beleive that it costs you time under brakes and with closely spaced sequential corners where gear changes and braking are required in between. I am not the best "heel and toe gear changer" which is probably my issue.

Will let you know if I try this option out Jerry. If you want to upgrade your TKO 600 they do this for $800. You send in your parts and they rework and send back. Probably a better option than changing synchros when they get tired. You get dog engagement 2nd, 3rd and 4th. 1st and 5th can also be done if desired but at extra cost.

Kel.

[Craig245]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

The synchro issue on down changing with lighter flywheel/clutch mass is interesting. With the tripple plate and light flywheel I am running, you simply cannot select 3rd or 2nd on a downchange without rev matching. I though this was just synchro degredation but on thinking back, my last car was the same with a fresh synchro trans until we put the Jerico in it.

Kel.

I have a Shelby GT-350 that I race regularly. 289 engine, lightened steel flywheel (8 pounds), triple plate clutch, and Ford Top Loader. I can, and do, downshift into slow corners from 4th to 2nd with no problems. I do always heel and toe downshift. There is no other way to drive a manual on the track. Your shifts are much smoother and you are less likely to lose it through trailing throttle over-steer. Plus it is cool.

Craig

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Craig245

I have a Shelby GT-350 that I race regularly. 289 engine, lightened steel flywheel (8 pounds), triple plate clutch, and Ford Top Loader. I can, and do, downshift into slow corners from 4th to 2nd with no problems. I do always heel and toe downshift. There is no other way to drive a manual on the track. Your shifts are much smoother and you are less likely to lose it through trailing throttle over-steer. Plus it is cool.

Craig

Agree on the heel and toe'ing front Craig. Have you raced with a dog engagement box like the Jerico? I had a classic race car prior to the Panoz, that had an M22 Muncie in it and a high revving small block. As soon as I went to a tripple plate and lightened flywheel I started to have shift issues that slowed me in a couple of sections of my regular track. I found the dog box was fantastic and reduced lap times due speed of change particularly in tight stuff.

Can you use dog engagement (i.e. mod a Toploader) in your classic class?

Kel.

[Craig245]

We can't use modern technology in West coast vintage racing, unless it is SCCA or some other group that let's you run what you brung. I have to run mid '60's technology like iron Ford heads, duao plane manifolds, no roller rockers or cams, original brakes, original transmissions and original suspension components and location. They are good rules in that they make the cars somewhat equal and the driver becomes a more important part of the equation. Plus I'm in it only for fun. The day that stops, I stop. In spite of the tight regs, we still are able to get 480 HP out of a 289. (Cams, porting and headers are free.) And...it is a blast to drive with bias ply tires sliding around corners.

Craig

[Panoz26]

Originally Posted by Blue Streak 21

Kel;
That's a good price. I put a TKO600 ($2k) behind my 347 motor this past winter. The 3550 was having big issues with the syncros in 3rd and 2nd. Have had no issues with the new tranny, but haven't put that many hours on the car either. I stayed with the cable clutch system. Stiff, but managable for sprint races. That reminds me I need to fine tune the clutch adjustment. Had a couple of down shifts that were not as smooth as they should have been. Could have been the loose nut behind the wheel....

Hmm -- I am wondering my shifting issues with my 3550 are the same. I had serious issues with 4th into 3rd and 2nd this past weekend. I guess Ill apply the fix to the shifter and see if it goes away - but am thinking the new LSX Power may be a bit much for the 3550.

Devin

[Panoz26]

Kel - before you purchase - call these guys - http://moderndriveline.com/index.html
Bruce has been very helpful with my GM Conversion and is waiting to sell me a 600.

[boothkc]

Kel,
I looked at their site and am confused. Are you looking at the 600 with "face plating" as being similar to a "dog box"? I thought these were clutchless units (at least on upshifts). Liberty says that the face plated 600 require clutch use etc.

Which unit are you looking at. I'd love a better, faster shifting trans for the GTS.

cheers,
Kevin

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Hmm -- I am wondering my shifting issues with my 3550 are the same. I had serious issues with 4th into 3rd and 2nd this past weekend. I guess Ill apply the fix to the shifter and see if it goes away - but am thinking the new LSX Power may be a bit much for the 3550.

Devin

Devin, the issues you are having are not likely to be related to power you are putting through the box. They are more likely to be related to shifter issues, clutch setup or adjustment, clutch/flywheel mass (light and decelerating quickly) or some other more obscure issue such as alignment.

Kel.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Kel - before you purchase - call these guys - http://moderndriveline.com/index.html
Bruce has been very helpful with my GM Conversion and is waiting to sell me a 600.

Will do, but am very keen on upgrading from synchros Devin.