10 thousand What to buy

[John.mc]

Hey Guys,

I am new here, I have 10 thousand dollars to spend on a new car I want practicality and performance. I am wondering what you all think. Here are the restrictions,

1. I sell insurance so it has to be nice, and can't look menacing(no wrx's or Evo's)
2. I travel a lot so it has to be dependable probably not more than ten years old.
3. I am looking for a sleeper. The volvo that blows by you type of car.
4. I am mechanically inclined so if you know of a 8 thousand dollar car and two thousand dollars of mods to make it fast that would work too.

I hope you enjoy thinking about this and I would love to get some of your ideas.

Thanks john

[MagicRat]

A few things here.

1. I'm moving the thread to Engineering/Technical, where imo, you will get the best response.

2. It sounds like you want a classy-looking, higher bucks 4-door performance sedan, and/or something in the "near-luxury" class. High performance coupes usually are not sleepers.

3. For this, 10k is not much money. I think that BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura are all out. Any car less than 10 years old and less than 10k are simply going to be thrashed and/or damaged.

4. I think you are left with the lower-end luxury cars that have a steep depreciation curve...... Lincoln, Cadillac and Jaguar.
Of those 3, the Lincoln LS V8 would be my choice, followed by a Cadillac Seville STS.

5. BTW, if all you have is 10k, don't spend 10k. Spend 8, and save the rest for possible repairs etc.

[shorod]

You should be able to get a decent Lincoln LS V8 for around $8k. It will probably be close to the 10 year old mark though, but their appearance changed very little in their 6-year run. You'll want to hang on to the extra $2k for some miscellaneous repairs. Oddly, the LS V8 is typically easier to work on than the V6 version.

-Rod

[curtis73]

If you're careful you can find an E39 BMW for that money (2001-older 7-series). Just be warned that radiators and catalysts are common failure points and VERY expensive to replace.

$8-10 will buy you a pretty nice 94-96 impala SS

It will also buy you a pretty sweet Lincoln Town Car. Get one of the later boxy ones with the 4.6L (since it is a rock-solid reliable engine) and most of the performance parts for mustang and F150 are easy to add. It will never handle really well, but a nice sleeper that will surprise a few ricers.

C4 vette

W210 Mercedes. Find yourself a 120-150k E300 turbodiesel (98-99). They are rock solid reliable to about 250k where you'll need some transmission work. Then they are rock solid to 350k where you'll need a head gasket. Otherwise they are smooth, one of the most reliable Benz models, super smooth, and a very solid buy. I paid $12k for one with 176k and knew it was a bargain. I sold it two years later with 200k for $12k.

Avoid volvo, saab, audi, VW, and jag. They tend to start having very expensive and very annoying issues. I run an import repair facility... ask me how I know.

Do not become tempted by the affordable prices on Land Rovers. There is a reason the pricing is too good to be true. We just bought a Freelander with 60k on the odometer for $1200, and we might make our money back after we install its third engine and second transmission.... in 60k miles. Many parts are only available from Rover. Today I just priced a CV joint for that Freelander at $640 wholesale, $780 retail. Considering we just paid $1200 for the vehicle, it was like salt in a wound. Nothing is worse than a worthless vehicle for which one part adds 50% to your investment.

I like the Lincoln LS idea.

BMW 5-series should be a nice idea. Don't be frightened off by BMW parts costs. Bimmer's parts structure is like a pyramid scheme. Bosch germany sells parts to BMW germany who sells it to BMW USA who sells it to regional warehouses, who sell it to dealers. By the time it gets upsold once, shipped to the states, upsold again, then upsold another 2-4 times on the way to the dealer, its ridiculous. I priced a coolant temp sensor for my E30 at the dealer for $76. I got online and looked up the Bosch part number, walked into an Auto Zone, they got it the next day from Bosch for $7.58. Most BMWs are easy to work on, and parts can be found cheap if you know where to look. They are also very reliable vehicles with a few electrical quirks.

In summary... Mercedes and BMW are the only European brands I'd consider. Mercedes seemed to peak in the late 90s, IMO with the 98-99 W210 E-class. BMW had some really high points from 1982-2001, after which I would only really look at an E46 3-series.

Japan has some nice options. I won't get into details, but Mazda hasn't impressed me. They have really started skimping on parts quality, partly a habit they picked up from Ford. Not that Ford is bad, just that once Ford and Mazda had their first child together, Mazda has started taking a plunge.

Toyota/Lexus has some nice stuff, but 1999-2004 has some bad marks on the roster. Automatic transmissions are somewhat fragile, and don't even think about rebuilding one. Again, I won't go into details, but we had two that ended up costing us one lawsuit and $4000 in repairs we did to try and rectify the situation.

Honda automatics are a nightmare from about 97-2004. Same goes for Ford FWD. I wish I had a nickel for every Accord and Taurus that comes through the shop for a transmission.

Nissan Automatics seem to be fine, but avoid the 5-speed automatics that started in 2003 or so. That story went very similarly to the Lexus story above.

For the most part, the Japanese are super reliable, but expect labor times to be high for simple maintenance. They don't leave any room for much work under the hood, and simple things like EGR valves are often buried under a complex intake structure which takes a normal job that should be 1/2 hour and makes it a 4.5 hour job that requires removing the intake, buying gaskets...

For all of the above reasons, buy yourself a 67 GTO. You can rebuild the transmission in an afternoon for $450, replacing an alternator is $35 and takes 15 minutes with two wrenches. A water pump takes an hour and you don't have to remove engine mounts, replace a timing belt, and work in 3/4" spaces to do it. It has absolute class, its cheap to insure, and will definitely get you laid regularly.

The 13 MPG... that's a different story.

[MagicRat]

Good post, Curtis. I think you should set-up your own auto- purchase advice website and make some bucks off your experiences.

You do mention a couple of things. Mercedes is busy earning a poor reputation for quality in recent years. The ML series in particular is similar to the Land Rover. Resale prices are severely depressed due to chronic, repetitive quality, parts and service issues.

These make attractive buys, but are utterly disastrous to own and operate.

The diesel Merc idea......too slow for the OP's criteria, imo, but a good choice, otherwise. I was offered an immaculate, older MB diesel a few years ago for $2200. Regretfully, I did not take it because it was slow like molasses uphill in winter. But very economical, reliable and nice-handling.

I had not suggested the Town car, because it did not seem like the OP's kind of thing. But, if a Town Car is acceptable, it is, imo the best bang for the buck. Very reliable, very sturdy and cheaper to fix than most others.... but a bit of an old-mans image, though.

I still say the Cadillacs are worth considering. 8K or less will easily buy a very nice 6 to 9 year old one. For the money, these cars are (300 HP) fast and the Seville STS handles pretty well. (The Deville is super-roomy but has somewhat-floppy handling.)

Parts are usually cheap to get, they are straightforward to work on and decently reliable.
They only have one problem..... the cylinder head bolts like to pull their threads requiring a head gasket change and a thread kit. You sometimes can find one with blown gaskets going for a song. Then spend 2k fixing the engine and the engines are good for 300k+ miles. You will still end up with one for half the cost of anything else that's similar.

[John.mc]

Thanks for the ideas I was thinking along the lines of a BMW e46 or E39. I love to fix my e36 BMW and have found all the right places to get parts.
I was wonder if I was missing anything that I should check out. Like a Volvo S80 turbo I have no experience with them and wonder if reasonable mods could make them fast enough. I was also wondering about a Saab 9-5 I know the old 9000 can take some serious boost with stock internals.

If you went for the Lincoln LS or the Cadillac STS what mods if any would you recommend.

Again thanks for the post.

John

[shorod]

Unlike the Volvo, Saab, or Cadillac, the Lincoln LS is RWD with a good weight balance. Being fast in the city doesn't always involve straight line performance.... That being said, since you seem to be concerned about a sleeper, maybe your first mod should be a brake upgrade to help you avoid those cars turning off of side streets, bicyclists, joggers, etc.

-Rod

[dizzle1]

Do it right the first time and get a 2001^ Bmw 540i A5 or 6M your choice wait take your time the right one will show up. Why a 5 series its bigger than a E46 3 series and you already got the E36 which is almost the same car. The 540i is the best known car for all around performance and they look really good. A 530i is their too but prices are very close so I'd have a V8. Power mods not to sure on that topic but they're fast with 6speed manuals. And have a lot of aftermarket support from suspension to M5 upgrades.

FWD not fun so forget those cars I always prefered power to the rear wheels especially in midsize to large cars. To me Fwd is a compact fuel sipper thing and cars like Toyota Yaris, Chevy Aveo, Smart should never have been allowed in the U.S
I thought it was all about civics and corollas and nothing smaller then that.

As you work with insurance what makes a car have lower rates payments
Sporty high porformance versions of bmw M-series, AMG, Audi's RS, wrx,sti's,evos will these be expensive even if they are old and resale value is under 10,000. Does engine size and hp matter or is it by brand of preminum cars. Safety, Color, Theft history.

If someone in thier early 20's wants to insure full coverage on a 2000 chevy corvette or a 2000 bmw 750iL v12 which would be cheaper.

[HeWhoKillz]

Well, at one point in time I was looking to get a new engine and was priced 4000$ for a 4 cylinder 1.6. I'd get that and then go to a junkyard. About a quarter of cars in a junkyard have good bodies but bad engines. I'd get an early 90's import like a handa toyota or nissan. So you know your getting good gas mileage and is only a matter of minutes to fix. If its a corolla id use an extra 1000 for a c160 transmission. 6 speed! I've just had good luck with the early 90's imports.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Good post, Curtis. I think you should set-up your own auto- purchase advice website and make some bucks off your experiences.

thanks... but you know me. If I did that everyone would be driving one of two cars; either a 67 GTO converted to biodiesel, or a BMW E30 converted to biodiesel

You do mention a couple of things. Mercedes is busy earning a poor reputation for quality in recent years. The ML series in particular is similar to the Land Rover. Resale prices are severely depressed due to chronic, repetitive quality, parts and service issues.

Amen. And have you walked into a Mercedes service department recently? I felt like I wasn't welcome because it was jacket-and-tie only. If I want to walk into a parts counter to get a fan shroud for my W210 while wearing jeans and a Tshirt, I don't expect to get glares from the shower-fresh, manicured, eye-candy receptionist. Its a greasy repair shop, not a plastic surgeon's office. I personally think that MB peaked with the 99 W210 diesel.

The diesel Merc idea......too slow for the OP's criteria, imo, but a good choice, otherwise. I was offered an immaculate, older MB diesel a few years ago for $2200. Regretfully, I did not take it because it was slow like molasses uphill in winter. But very economical, reliable and nice-handling.

That is true of the earlier MB diesels. My wife's E300 will light 'em up and get sideways like a muscle car. Torque is ridiculously evident in the 98-99 cars. The 30+ mpg is just a bonus.

I still say the Cadillacs are worth considering. 8K or less will easily buy a very nice 6 to 9 year old one. For the money, these cars are (300 HP) fast and the Seville STS handles pretty well. (The Deville is super-roomy but has somewhat-floppy handling.)

They're nice, but I've seen too many engine replacements at my shop. The northstar is just not as great as it seems. They also seem to have GM's legendary material quality; thin leather seats that crack and tear, headliners that sag, carpet that wears through under your feet. But you are correct; nice power, nice ride and handling, great curb appeal and luxury.