The back side of Pay"pal"

[spincarez]

Hi Joel, Sorry for what has happened and i understand your situation. From the buyers point of view, I can tell you it is equally frustrating to not get what one pays for. In my case i paid what was asked for the shipping and gave it 4 weeks before contacting the seller.
I am sure the seller has shipped them but as a buyer, is the burden of loss only at my shoulders. I mean what am i suppose to do?
As for paypal, i completely agree with you on everything. Sometime ago, I bought a used Iwata airbrush and the discription stated that only the trigger was missing. Upon receiving it, i found out that it was missing almost everything apart from the body and the spares alone cost over 100US$. i filed a claim and i was asked to return it at my own cost which was ridiculous as sending it back from Sweden to the US would have cost more than what i paid for the airbrush. I had no choice but to keep it. The ebaypal simply didn't want to understand the reason of the dispute.

[joelwideqvist]

Hej igen Spincarez (såg att du var från Köpenhamn)

It is frustrating not to get your goods but if you are afraid of such things happening you can always pay extra for insurance or tracking information. My problem is that I didn't think that was necessary as a seller. Now I know better....

[spincarez]

Hej Joel, Jeg bor nu i malmö. Jeg lige så at du er også fra sverige.

Well i assumed that it was safe not to choose insurance since it was meant to be posted in an envelope. I always thought that insurance was a must only with bigger items.

[CrateCruncher]

It's rare that I would defend a gi-normous corporation, much less one with a virtual monopoly over us but I think eBay/Pal are trying to strike some balance between protecting buyers and sellers from the unscrupulous few in the absence of any practical recourse. (Mind you, it's purely in their selfish interest to protect their business.) Unfortunately, as they make changes to such a complex system there can be unintended consequences. While a frequent seller acquires a reputation that is worth protecting, an occassional buyer emboldened toward petty dishonesty could game the new system with no consequences. (Recall, sellers can't even post negative feedback anymore.) And while we're on the topic, what's to stop an equally unscrupulous seller from sending an empty box with tracking and insurance? (EDIT: A "significantly different than described" claim would be filed in this last case.)

For big ticket items like $10,000 wrist watches and such, eBay offers an escrow service through a neutral third party for a fee. But this is totally impractical for small value items, not to mention slowing the transaction down. I don't know about you guys, but I bought it and I want it NOW.

It could be argued international e-commerce has grown faster than the legal framework needed to protect us. But I also realize that even with better laws between countries, the legal system is not going to spend public resources prosecuting a guy trying to avoid paying for a $30 model any more than your local police are going to send out the CSI team to investigate a stolen house plant off your porch. One good thing we have as hobbyists is that our transactions rarely exceed $300 making it less lucrative for professional crooks or organized scams.

I recently bought a model from a fellow in Hong Kong that emailed a photo of the post office receipt. At the time I thought "Wow, what a thoughtful seller to do such a nice thing." After reading this thread I realize he was covering his bum!

[Seamus McRae]

I feel for you mate. Inevitably, I think a lot depends on the general morals of the buyer.
Aside from modelling WRC & F1, I dabble in military stuff. A wee while ago I won a 1/48 UH-1 helo kit on eBay from a well known UK eBayer. I reasoned it would arrive within a certain timeframe - nup, no show. I emailed him outlining the situation & (out of his own pocket & in good faith - he didn't have to do anything, remember) organised to send another of the same kit to me. Murphy's Law - both of them arrived within a few days of each other. Out of good conscience, I couldn't keep the extra kit, so I returned it.

...We exchange emails now & again helping each other with different modelling ideas & tips.

These days a lot of people out there, regardless of where they live, are all about "what's in it for me?" Shame...

EDIT: Thinking about it more reminded me of another time I had an issue with the whole shebang which never goes the way it should, with one of those HK/Chinese fly-by-nighters. I was the lucky recipient of something WRC of his. It never showed. I emailed him - nada! I emailed him again - several times. After a few weeks, I thought right!; PayPal. Filed the complaint. Next thing I know, he's gobbing me for this, that & the other. Long story short, I receive a parcel in the mail from him with a whole heap of P/E (none of it directly related to the the item I won from him) bribing me for +ve feedback (still no sign of the item I happened to "win").
Complaint to eBay/PayPal - no success. Shonky HK seller with a new profile, ability to trade with the same items under the same trading conditions within days of being busted, with the same addy, with the same everything - 100% success.

WTF?! is that about

[CrateCruncher]

I poked about on Bay/Pal to see if I could find what constitutes proof of shipment. Here's their explanantion:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ection-outside

Only US residents are eligible. (Terms are different for UK,FR,DE,HK,CA,AU - follow the link above for specifics in your country. Everyone else is SOL)

If I'm interpreting their explanation right, you just need a photo of a receipt from the shipper (like USPS for example) showing the recipients postal code and a ship date thats no more than 7 days since the end of auction. The added expense of registered/tracking may be unnecessary. However, you still need a delivery confirmation signature for items over $250 and I don't think anything can protect a seller from a "significantly different than described" claim.