Is this mechanic trying to rob me?

[tripletdaddy]

My main point was, to examine the parts to see for oneself why they needed replacement. A mechanic should openly be willing to make them available for personal inspection by the owner. When I do rarely go, that has always been the case for me at all the shops I've visited. I guess I make it a point to see for myself that the work needs to be done rather than take the word of a stranger. I respect what you say Rod about the professional, but crooks come in all shapes and sizes. This openness is good policy and a good busines practice. It shows that the shop has absolutely nothing to hide proving they are honest and trustworthy. I worked for a repair business that ALWAYS made the parts we changed available to the customer if they ever felt the need to see for themselves that replacement was necessary, often leaving replaced parts for that very reason. Anything else by any repair business raises and creates suspicion, which at this point, until the shop at issue refuses to produce said parts, we are getting ahead of ourselves, though the original point of contention is the oring and not the radiator, as I believe even the mechanic hasn't denied the radiator is good. As I suggested before, if the radiator is still available, hopefully the good oring is still there to determine what makes it so "special." I find it hard to believe that it is so unique that a replacement or close substitute couldn't be found. So, like you, december, I view the mechanic's assesment with great skepticism. But, if you and your girlfriend were so wary of this mechanic, why did she use him anyway? It seemed he was female biased to me.

In closing, my main point or red flag here, is the possibilty he will refuse inspection of the removed parts. It really is a customer's right to take possesion of those parts if they so desire, as they did belong to the owner before they came off the car. Most of the time, this never happens, so it is assumed by both parties the mechanic will take possesion of the replaced parts and dispose of them as he sees fit. But, in this case, since there was so much suspicion openly made to the mechanic of the suposedly necessary repairs, total disposal of the parts creates suspicion and would appear more favorable for your girlfriend if brought to a legal settlement. If the parts have any significant redeemable or usable value, I would have to disagree with you Rod, that there is legal precedent for some reimbursement of the disposed parts, uncommon as it may be, IF, and only if, it is proven the mechanic fraudulently performed repairs determined to be either not needed or more than necessary. Well, there's my .

Tripletdaddy, esq. de faux
No charge for services rendered
Pro bono by law

[way2old]

There is one more little issue that has not been addressed. Did the owner authorize the repair before it was performed? If it was an owner authorized repair, it will be really hard to prove anything against the mechanic or shop.

[december]

Originally Posted by way2old

There is one more little issue that has not been addressed. Did the owner authorize the repair before it was performed? If it was an owner authorized repair, it will be really hard to prove anything against the mechanic or shop.

That seems odd to me. Wouldn't that mean that mechanics can commit fraud as long as the customer believes their lies and authorizes completely unecessary, expensive repairs?

[Dave_s]

No. It means that once the customer authorizes the repair, it is difficult to prove.

I have had similar experiences with mechanics. There just isn't much you can do other than tell your friends not to use them. You can complain to the BBB, but they can't do much even in cases where you can prove it.

My experience has been that most independently owned shops are honest most of the time. The chains will sometimes get ya because of how they pay their employees. I had good luck with one of the chains around here for a while, then they wanted to charge me for something silly. I took the work elsewhere.

In your case, assuming your correct that the guy is steeling, you don't have much recourse. Just don't go back, and make sure your girlfreind doesn't send any of her friends there.

[december]

I do still plan to go talk to him. She got robbed. That's wrong. And we're college students, so it's not like we have money to burn.

If I can get my scanner hooked up, I'm going to post the receipt to see what you guys think.

[december]

Ok well I can't get my scanner to work, so I can't post a picture of the invoice.

At the bottom of it, it says "Authorized By," and then a long line for the customer to sign his/her name. It's blank, and my girlfriend says she never signed anything except for the credit card bill.

At the top, it says "Save Old Parts: No."

I've never had any of this work done myself, so I don't know what it normally costs. Here's what the invoice says:

Radiator (part): $220.
Labor: $315

Water Pump (part): $78.95
Serpentine Belt - With AC (part) $69.95
Labor: $245

Including engine coolant, ATF, and tax, it totalled $866.67.

[tripletdaddy]

Ouch!!! That's a lot of money for people with money, let alone a college student!?! Those sound like city rates, so those may be accurate book rate hours at a high hourly rate. Seems at those rates I should spend more of my time repairing cars than talking about it!?!

I personally have had a similar experience with a shop taking advantage of me, because I was a college student, either that or they just like to pad their bill. They know they can get away with it. They also assume that college students have deep Daddy's pockets. After that one bad experience, I forced myself to do more of my own work when possible. There was a tire shop in the same area that was very well known for it's shady practices, though I think they treated everybody the same if the person wasn't wise enough to keep them honest. Not all mechanics were bad down at school, but you sure felt like you had to treat them all with suspicion because of those few.

There being a checkbox for saving the old parts validates my point about there being a customer's ownership of the parts AFTER the repair, thereby, the owner having the right to have them when done, inspect them, or decide to have the mechanic dispose of them. In this case, since your girlfriend apparently indicated or said she didn't want the parts, there's not much that can be done there. If he still has them, hopefully he will let you inspect them. From trying to make your case in small claims court, I'm not sure how much weight there will be with the mechanic refusing you to see the parts after they became his property. It only creates suspicion. I don't doubt the belt and pump could need replacing, but only if your girlfriend thought there was a problem, or she felt the mechanic had a good explanation for needing to replace the pump, because it was leaking, noisy or loose.

Your girlfriend may not have any recourse. Sadly, because mechanics know they can get away with unnecessary repairs, they continue to do them. Do let us know the final outcome. Good luck, but I don't expect you to get far.

[december]

Well, just to briefly recap the problem, she went in with an ATF leak, and the guy said that because she had an aftermarket radiator, he couldn't find the right o ring to reconnect the transmission coolant line to the radiator. Definitely didn't sound right.

So I went to talk to him. So far, it looks like my girlfriend was relaying the information wrong. I guess in her defense, the guy does talk fast, and was probably using some pretty technical terms that she wouldn't understand. But anyway.

He told me that what he couldn't find was in fact not ano ring, but a fitting that the o ring would go into. Again, finding this part was apparently difficult because it was an aftermarket radiator. He claims he spoke to ford about it, and that they couldn't help him. He also claims to have gone to a junk yard to find the radiator. The guys there had it, but wouldn't sell him just the one part, because the radiator would then be useless to them.

I asked him if there's some reason why the water pump, serpentine belt, and coolant hose all had problems at the same time. He said the water pump pulley was fraying the belt, and the part of the belt that was hanging off was constantly slapping against the transmission coolant hose, which eventually caused it to disconnect. I can't say I've ever heard of a drive belt doing that; seems like a long strip like that would just tear right off, not hang and spin around. Wouldn't that make a pretty loud sound??

But for now, I believe him. But I got tired of trying to figure all this out, so I did get her old radiator out of his shop, which he seemed cool with. I'm going to take the radiator to her actual mechanic back home to see if he thinks the guy should've been able to handle this without replacing the whole radiator.

And her car definitely needs to go in. It looks like either there's a problem with a pulley that he didn't notice, or he misaligned the drive belt. It squeeks pretty bad, and stops for a minute if I spray water on it.

Also, her car is still bucking and I think she still has a really slow ATF leak.

Both problems make me wonder.... was he trying to make sure she'll come back and give him more money?

BTW you guys have been really helpful. Thanks, and I'll let you know what happens.

[tripletdaddy]

I can see why you are wary of him. On one hand, if these problems you described are either remaining inspite of his attempted repair or are a result of his repair, either way, he should have taken care of them as part of the original repair or at no additional cost, if no additional parts are needed, he should fix the problem. One the other hand, however, in light of your situation, it may not be worth it. That's really a judgement call on your and your girlfriend's part. It depends on who takes it there: who does all the talking; can you work things out yourself with him over the phone if only your girlfriend can take it back, surely for no charge the mechanic should be willing to take a quick look at it while your girlfriend is there and you talk to him on the phone just after he examines it (cell phones are really wonderful things for this sort of thing); what more he is willing to do as part of the original amount paid; is the leak and the other issues originating from somewhere else, which if so would incur more cost......; do either of you have the time to pursue this, as you may need to have these issues raised and examined by the mechanic within a certain amount of time after which he could consider these to be new and unrelated issues which he would want more money to fix.

It's difficult to tell from our remote perspective your situation and best course of action.

I didn't read a good reason for replacing the water pump. It's pulley can be replaced without replacing the pump. Normally, you keep the pulley when you change the pump. He may not have correctly reinstalled the problem pulley that appears misalligned. As to the belt fraying and slapping the trans line, that sounds very plausible. As it starts to separate, it becomes a little whip that will beat on everything in its path until it wears out and breaks off. However, before that, it took out the trans line. My recollection is that the belst and the trans lines are fairly close together, enough for me to believe that scenario to be plausible. I also thought the belt price was twice as high as it could have been, AZ $20 - $33. As for the radiator fitting, a radiator shop should have that or be able to get one, duh!?! At least he should have called one, which he has not said he did. I'd even bet on NAPA or Carquest being able to get it. Oh well. A hard lesson to learn as a college student. Maybe next time, ask around for a recommendation.

[tripletdaddy]

Oh, btw, this is the first you mentioned I think, that the car is bucking. It seemed you implied that it is related to the original problem and were hoping reconnecting the trans line, etc. would take care of that. Are you sure it's not an ignition/performance/gas problem? Or did it just show up about when you figured out you had a trans leak? Oh, btw, did the trans line come completely off? Did all of or a lot of the trans fluid get pumped out? Has the trans fluid level been checked since driving it several miles to burp out all the air, etc.?

[Hammer Time]

If she agreed to the repair not much you can do about it???