Is this mechanic trying to rob me?

[december]

Hi,

My girlfriend recently took her car in with an ATF leak from her coolant line. The guy told her needed a new radiator. There was nothing wrong with the one she had. He said her current one needed a part replaced (I'm pretty sure it's an O ring), and he said that because the car's radiator is not the one it was built with (i.e. it was replaced before she bought it), he can't find the part that matches.

I thought he should have been able to contact the company that made her radiator, and just ask for the part. He says they would only sell the parts to actual dealers.

Is this guy telling the truth? Do you guys think he really wouldn't be able to just call whoever made the transmission and ask for the o ring?

She drives a 96 Taurus, btw.

[way2old]

If she can do without the car a little while, remove the line and take the O ring to a place that has a selection and match it up. Is the leak aroung the line, or the adapter that screws into the radiator?

[december]

As far as I know, the line just came out of the radiator. We go to school 50 miles a part, so I can't really look under the hood.

Yeah I figured he should at least be able to go to an auto parts store and math up the old one.

So would the maker of the radiator really only sell parts to dealers, and not mechanics?

[way2old]

Never heard of that one. Is there any way she can take picture and post it here? If not have her send a picture to me of the line and I will post it here. Then We can get a better idea of where the problem actually is.

[december]

Unfortunately, she already had it done and paid for it. Now I'm trying to see if I'm right that he didn't have to replace the whole radiator so I can go over and get some of her money back ($800+, which includes a new water pump and drive belt).

[CrapaTaurusWrecks]

Sounds like another "mechanic special." Having replaced a radiator in a 1996 Taurus I can tell you that there is no extra space down there. If the radiator was previously replaced and an aftermarket radiator was used it would have to be an exact match or it would not fit. The radiator would also have the same size transmission cooler inlets. O-rings are generally genaric in size and redily available at all auto part stores but even if you replaced the entire transmission cooling line (which would include a new O-ring) the entire assembly costs under $30 at Autozone.com.
As far as the serpentine belt being replaced... I've never been to a mechanic without being told my serpentine belt needed to be replaced. It's a 5 minute job and between overcharging you for parts and labor they pocket $50 or more.
Having said that I will say that you were charged an average price for the parts and work performed. it's up to you to determine whether you needed it.

Good luck,

TaurusGLenn

[way2old]

Without seeing where the problem actually was, I am afraid you will not have any recourse to get any money refunded. I am sure the old parts are gone and no way to check them.

[mwt47]

You can buy a whole kit of metric orings at Harbor freight for under 10 bucks.
Dude is lying thru his teeth and is the main reason no one trusts them

Mike

[december]

Wow. SO, ok. What can I do?

Let's assume I absolutely know for a fact that this guy totally ripped off my girlfriend.

Now, she kept me continually updated about everything from the time she noticed a problem until after she paid for the radiator. She definitely told me the guy said he couldn't find the right o ring, and that the manufacturer of her aftermarket radiator wouldn't supply him with one.

So if I go up to this place with the receipt and explain that I know he lied and charged her way more than he should have for repairs she didn't need, is this guy gonna laugh at me because all the old parts are gone?

Or would you guess that he'd rather not risk time in court and me saying bad stuff about his business to as many people as I can? How do these things usually go?

[tripletdaddy]

Technically, the parts he removed from the car belong to her. He is required by law to make the parts available for her to take or inspect to verify that the parts needed replacement. Since it is common practice and a courtesy for mechanics to dispose of the parts, customers don't know they have the right to their parts. If she has made it clear of her suspicions of the unnecessary need to replace the radiator before and after the completion of the work, and he cannot provide the parts in question, then you've got a very strong case. Demand to see the oring or show one like it or explain why it was so unique that some sort of common oring wouldn't work. If there is otherwise nothing wrong with the radiator, you should get it just so it can be reused, but either way, you should get it to prove your case in need be. Make sure everything he put in is brand new and get name brands of the parts. Get quotes of the work from other nearby shops for comparison. Figure out what brand is the old radiator yourself or from the mechanic and pursue the manufacterer yourself on this unreplaceble oring crap. Try parts stores with the brand name for info too. Come to think of it, a radiator shop or the dealership should have been able to come up with that "special" oring. The oring should come with the trans cooling line, not the radiator, so the radiator never had this so called special oring!?! Talk to the BBB. They should be able to help put pressure on this guy.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by tripletdaddy

If she has made it clear of her suspicions of the unnecessary need to replace the radiator before and after the completion of the work, and he cannot provide the parts in question, then you've got a very strong case.

I think there'd only be a case there if she made it clear to the shop doing the work that she had suspicions. If she did not specify to the shop that she wanted the replaced parts, I don't think any court would find the shop liable for not saving the parts.

If she was charged for a new radiator though and the radiator is obviously not new, then that's another story.

Broad comments like "the shop said she needed a new radiator, but I'm x hours away, didn't witness the leak, but there was nothing wrong with the radiator she had" and "I'm pretty sure it was a bad o-ring" don't hold water (pun intended) in court either.

I've been witness to a shop's perspective of this and in all cases I witnessed, the vehicle owner was mistaken or was not accurate in their diagnosis. It's a very awkward position for a professional, responsible business owner. I'm sure there are less honest business owners out there, but the consumer does not always know better than the trained professional that works with these types of issues regularly. If you're going to accuse someone of something, regardless of the profession or issue, please have clear proof that the accusation you are making is accurate and that you were treated unfairly.

-Rod

[december]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Originally Posted by shorod

I think there'd only be a case there if she made it clear to the shop doing the work that she had suspicions. If she did not specify to the shop that she wanted the replaced parts, I don't think any court would find the shop liable for not saving the parts.

She asked him (at my insistance) why he couldn't just contact the manufacturer for the part he needed. That's when he told her that the maker of the radiator just wouldn't sell him the part. She also told him that I'd looked at her drive belt a few days before she took it in, and it looked fine.

Originally Posted by shorod

If she was charged for a new radiator though and the radiator is obviously not new, then that's another story.

I'll look at the stamp on the "new" radiator tomorrow, and also check if the radiator itself is obviously old.

Originally Posted by shorod

Broad comments like "the shop said she needed a new radiator, but I'm x hours away, didn't witness the leak, but there was nothing wrong with the radiator she had" and "I'm pretty sure it was a bad o-ring" don't hold water (pun intended) in court either.

Several people witnessed the leak, and I'm now positive it was the o ring he "couldn't replace."

Also, I'm going there on Monday to talk to him, just to ask exactly why he replaced a perfectly functioning radiator. I'm definitely not going to just sick a lawyer on him without speaking with him first.

Originally Posted by shorod

I've been witness to a shop's perspective of this and in all cases I witnessed, the vehicle owner was mistaken or was not accurate in their diagnosis. It's a very awkward position for a professional, responsible business owner. I'm sure there are less honest business owners out there, but the consumer does not always know better than the trained professional that works with these types of issues regularly. If you're going to accuse someone of something, regardless of the profession or issue, please have clear proof that the accusation you are making is accurate and that you were treated unfairly.

-Rod

I understand your point, and I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt multiple times. It may not sound like it from my posts, but I do know a bit about cars, and in fact service my own. I thought the guy was lying pretty much from the start -- that's why I started asking around on this forum, talking to friends, etc.

But wouldn't the guy be legally liable if I could prove that he charged hundreds of dollars for repairs that he knew she didn't need?

And thanks again, everyone.

[shorod]

I'm not sure about legal liability. I'm not sure how you could PROVE that he knew she didn't need a new radiator, etc. Negligence is one thing, maliciousness would be different. If you could prove malicious intent (purposely selling her parts that she didn't need would fall into this category) and you'd probably have a case, but that will be a tough case to prove.

Good luck and hopefully justice will prevail, whether that be an honest repair or getting some money back on an unjust repair.

-Rod

[december]

Unless there's still something I don't know, I'm positive he replaced her radiator when there was no need to. She was taken advantage of.

But I'll see her tomorrow and I'll be able to look at both the receipt and the car. After that, I'm going to talk to the guy to clear this up.

Thanks for your help.

[DistanceGuy1]

In addition, be very clear and articulate in how you speak to the person. Do not raise your voice. You might also consider bringing along a friend with you as a witness. Breach of Peace is a very real concern if you approach the issue with heavy emotion.