small pins in oil pan

[jumpingjack66]

wish i could get out of it. About facts, they pretty much speak for them selves don't they...jj

[silveradowhite]

The fact is that the rocker arm bearings fell out of the engine with only 66,000 km on the truck. This is not my opinion but cold hard facts. The bearings are in my hand. And if you read the TSB on the situation GM states that same FACT that these could fail, so why tell us about the problem and then refuse to do anything about it. 'Oh by the way your engine may fall apart at some time due to our incompetence, but we won't fix it for you we will wait until it fails and then you can fix it yourself' Thanks GM for the vote of confidence. Sure failures will happen which mine probably was, but when a company knows about a certain defect by publishing it to the public and then refuses to correct the problem, then I have a beef with that.

Originally Posted by JParrott

If y'all don't like your rigs, trade 'em in on something else.

I'm not going to slight anyone's situation, but there's alot more opinionated bitching going on in this thread than any real factual complaints.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by jumpingjack66

Silveradwhite, You'll have to excuse our local GM service techs here at af we love them but they are increasingly defensive and will speak no evil when it comes to GM. Sorry guys, hows that pension plan looking..lol..Anyways Merlins response to your original thread statment is classic for GM service techs and managers.. "Yours is the first vehicle i've ever seen with this problem sir, it can't be the abs brake sensors sir it must the hubs , there wore out" "Ya i know your truck only has 36,500 miles on it, but for some reason your truck ,car ect.. is the only one in the country that has had this problem$1300.00 please" "(giggle) No sir we won't warranty that ...Sorry" Does this sound familier to anybody? Well Ive heard the same jive now for 4 years, for three seperate problems that have now been finally recalled nationwide. Since ive already payed for these repairs ( I'm disabled by the way, retraining in college after a drunk driver crippled me) so paying for these obvious factory defects has been a tremendous burden.. I firmly believe that not only did GM screw everybody by building this crap and refusing to fix it until the NTSB finally held them responsable for ther deaths and suffering they have caused, but then it seems GM had to bail out the service departments that were being overwhelmed so the came up with the "service response for known defects that we don't want to pay for" script which includes proper responses like the one i included in this post.. You are absolutly right when you relate there current loss of sales to the overwhelmingly poor engineerd product and the Debochery of the service managers who decided to use these defects as a way to steal money yes i said steal money from the public.. To back this statment up i direct you to my post and poll of last year "would you buy it again " whare the poll is holding at 14-15% of people who played along said no way would they ever buy this garbage ( I.E. GM products) again because of this obvious crime of fraud. The sad part is no way will the federal gov allow a company this large to go under now so they will bail them out calling it an atempt at evening the playing field between domestic and foreign competition. I'm sorry to call you out Merlin but there is no way the GM service departments and there managers did not know what GM was doing,and should have done something to stop GM corperate when they started refusing to pick up these repairs. How Can Anybody trust GM and there employees again. I want to again apologise to Merlin I have a great deal of respect for him because of his experience and time served in the automotive industry, he does alot of good here at af helping people, but his smart @#$ response to Silveradowhites smart @#$ response set me off. I realize working at a dealership means that a person may not feel the frustration ( you get fairly cheap auto service i bet) that the rest of us common folk out here have to endure, so can you not act so smug when someone here is venting? after all these trucks aren't cheap and some of use are just getting by, without having to pay for unneccessary repairs...I'll quit now and check this tommorow in hopes of continuing this discussion. If i've said something inapropriate, i again apologise..jj

I will say I see a lot of humor here on AF and the conspiracy theories are quite amusing.
You say I have a smart ass attitude..well you are right. If you delt with some of the customers I have over the years and the people coming out of the woodwork with TSBs for conditions not related to their vehicle, incorrect information, telling me how to fix their vehicle instead of telling me the symptoms, the demand for warranty extensions at 80,90,100K miles and my favorite “ my (insert relative here) is a mechanic and he said (insert part here) is what is causing the problem” you would be a little on the smart ass side here.
Add to that the fact that people have predetermined notions about the auto repair industry (because they still think their 1962 chevy was a better car).
Do I defend GM yes and no, do I defend dealers yes and no…go look at my posts, you will see I have many posts helping people deal with dealers and GM.
Your comment about my pension, how about elaborate on that…what type of pension do I have? What makes you think I have a pension? Who is my pension thru?
You made the comment, you back it up.

Why do you say my answer is classic? I stated a fact..I work at a high volume dealer and have only seen two vehicles with this.. Does this mean it doesn’t happen?
NO..There is a TSB in regards to the condition, so it is happening and a fix has been identified.
Could this be an issue that was missed in a quick lube? Most definitely..
Of the two I saw, one was during a routine maintenance (oil change) and the other came in as an engine noise concern (valve train noise)
The one thing you must remember is some concerns are geographic and a dealer on the east coast may not see the same concern as a vehicle on the west coast.
As well as some concerns may be related to build facility or shift.
The internet gives you the ability to bitch, piss and moan about your vehicle while others can join you.
Funny thing is I took statistics in school and an eye opening statistic is when there is a dissatisfied customer they will tell up to 12 people about their experience.
A satisfied customer usually only tells 2-3 people about their experience.
Looking at the number of vehicles sold and number of complaints, I see this as a small percentage overall.
As far as warranty goes. Remember 12/12 warranty?
Does (insert name of any non automotive company) honor any warranty after the warranty period expires? Most definitely not.
My clothes washer stopped working 2 days after the warranty period…did Sears charge me for the repairs?…you bet your sweet ass..did I call and ask for assistance? yes..their answer NO! And yes I called the Manufacturer of the washer and they told me sears makes the decision.
You have a warranty on your vehicle. Once the warranty period is over, the manufacturer has no obligation to extend or offer you an extension. They do this as “goodwill” for insuring customer satisfaction.
So you should feel satisfied if warranty extension coverage in any amount is offered to you.
Cry me a river about your “problems that are now covered by a recall” and you had to pay.
If you would have read the recall notice there was information on receiving reimbursement for previous repairs included in the recall.
This information included contact numbers and possibly a form to submit to GM for reimbursement.
You send GM the information on the vehicle and documentation of the repair costs and they reimburse you. A nice little check comes in the mail..I did it on one of my vehicles.
What you fail to understand is that the Tech, Advisor, Manager and Dealer make no money by not finding your concern.
Technicians work on a flat rate hour (paid by the job), if they do no work, they receive no pay..tough way to make a living isn’t it.
You show me a job where you have to supply your own tools and only get paid if you work on a vehicle. Add to that the fact that just about everyone thinks they know more than you (reference replies here on AF).
Many people will spend hundreds of dollars and many hours replacing perfectly good parts trying to repair a simple problem instead of spending less than $100 to have it professionally diagnosed by a properly trained and certified technician.
Lets come to reality here for a minute.
Today’s automobile is a sophisticated piece of machinery. Multi module communication strategies, CAN and LAN hi and low speed communication circuits, Low, medium and high voltage circuits, fiber optics and sophisticated controls makes vehicle do things thought impossible 5, 10 or 20 years ago.
When I started in the business back in the day, I saw many guys getting out because computers were being used in engine management, then came fuel injection, distributor less ignition systems, then 2 computers, 3, 4 and now some vehicles have 20-30 modules.
Now there is electronic fuel injection and turbochargers that change boost independent of engine speed on diesel engines…have you heard the noise a Duramax engine makes? Pretty quiet and it’s a diesel ( with a compression ratio extremely close to a gas engine)
Do I get cheap auto service? Depends on what you say is cheap…It’s my time, and time is money. I’m sure you get your (insert your job here) done cheap too.

So your calling me out..don’t think so sport.
If you did anything, you proved your ignorance of the automotive industry and the relationship between GM and their dealer franchises.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by silveradowhite

The fact is that the rocker arm bearings fell out of the engine with only 66,000 km on the truck. This is not my opinion but cold hard facts. The bearings are in my hand. And if you read the TSB on the situation GM states that same FACT that these could fail, so why tell us about the problem and then refuse to do anything about it. 'Oh by the way your engine may fall apart at some time due to our incompetence, but we won't fix it for you we will wait until it fails and then you can fix it yourself' Thanks GM for the vote of confidence. Sure failures will happen which mine probably was, but when a company knows about a certain defect by publishing it to the public and then refuses to correct the problem, then I have a beef with that.

Not making light of your concern, but a TSB doesn't mean that every vehicle made will have the condition.
It states and I quote

Some customers may comment or technicians may notice needle bearings being found during an engine oil change

And the other thing you must understand is that GM does not manufacture every single part that goes on your vehicle. Those rockers probally came from some Mom and Pop company that scored a contract to supply GM with the componant.
If 2 or 3 companies are supplying the componant and 1 of those companies are responsible for the defective part, then only a portion of the vehicles will show a failure.

[jumpingjack66]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

Not making light of your concern, but a TSB doesn't mean that every vehicle made will have the condition.
It states and I quote
And the other thing you must understand is that GM does not manufacture every single part that goes on your vehicle. Those rockers probally came from some Mom and Pop company that scored a contract to supply GM with the componant.
If 2 or 3 companies are supplying the componant and 1 of those companies are responsible for the defective part, then only a portion of the vehicles will show a failure.

My name is jumpingjack or you can call me jack but my name is not "sport"...I'm 39 yrs old. i am an adult and i try to act as one...
conpiracy theory? Everyone from GM is trying to act like nothing is wrong.. (This is about the classic answer comment) just once I'd like to here someone say "ya we screwed up" "ya we need to make this right" Take responsability for your actions (GM)..

My point here is your atitude is pervasive as if you have been trained to say this , as if you were told to denie a problem exists or else. I have heard this from you and the GM service managers i dealt with so its obviously company wide. Every single time( this is true ) i have taken my truck in to a dealer i have been told " yours is the only vehicle i have ever seen have this problem" 4 monthes later out pops a recal nation wide? Whats that about?
Let me get this right, i can leave the sparkplugs in for 100,000 miles but I'll have to change the drivetrain at 70,000 miles and it becomes my responsability?

At 36,500 miles they fought me to fix somthing they had already fixed 4 times. So any warrenty limit is moot at that point, It will be there resposability untill they fix it right. In fact had these dealer service managers had told me they will keep fixing it until its right they would have had me as a customer for life, i would have felt i could trust them,but not now. They just kept putting the same bad parts in. how about reengineering the parts and fixing it permanatly, or retrofit back to drums( by the way i wanted to ask you will the drum brakes on the 05 rear axils fit my 2000 k1500 and could they be swapped safley..seriously)

I'm not completely ignorant of your job as i was professionally trained as a mechanic for four yrs when i was young. i realized what a shit job it was to try and make a living at it so i decided to do somthing else..My health now limits my ability to work on cars so i am at the mercy of your dealerships. So far i have recieved little mercy. I use my automotive training to help myself, family, friends,and anybody who can,t aford your $100.00 diagnosis fee. In general i try to help anyone i can. I don,t take advantage of anybody. I don't lye and denie if ive made a mystake. I make it right. I stand up and say ya i screwed up and i will make it right. Every company ive worked for has made there mystakes right, no matter the lenght of time within reason. Is it reasonable to ask Silveradowhite to pay for an engine at 66,000 miles? How is he going to pay for it?

Formally i want to apologise for the pension comment. it was just a dig at you and it was inapropriate..I hope that no matter what happens to GM that you and yours are going to be ok..

I did read the recalls, i think they state that GM will determine if i will get a refund. So, I'm supposed to trust them now to decide in my favorafter denieing the problem for 4 yrs, now that the NTSB has forced them to fix the problems, because poeple have been killed or injured, but they admited no responsability or even that there was an issue for 4 yrs? No they will do the recalles on this truck, they will try to fix it again. I was told at the dealer that it wasn't him who was making the decision it was the regional GM rep who decided whether he could make it right ..perhaps they were lying to me about that as well..
Why is it that the lye cheat and steel attitude that starts up on the sales floor of a car dealership has to go all the way back to the service department. Can somebody explain this to me?

About the quote above: Ive heard somepeople (not you specifically merlin) mention that venders make these parts and its not GM's fault, but my truck says chevy on the front that makes any mystake made by there venders GM's responsability. I'ts up to GM to sue these venders for any repairs they have had to make, do to there bad parts, then maybe venders will make better parts, and intern GM can make better vehicles. but don't fight me the customer over bad malfunctioning abs brake systems that run poeple out into oncoming traffic,don't fight me over the parking brake that won't hold and won't workafter three months, and for god sakes fix the dam fuel guage...It's about taking resposability for your actions. It's the fundimental difference between right and wrong. i don't care if it was just a small number of trucks that had bad roller rockers because of a bad shift on the assembly line or a bad vender, it's your resposability GM how can you keep customers if you screw all the poeple that bought from you before, how can you sleep at night?? GM has been dead wrong for the last 5 yrs, so don't try to convince me that i'm the one with the problem...jj

Ps. the spelling and grammer is trash in my post but im feeling lazy and i cannot seem to find the spell checker i thought we used to have here.

[JCL82]

Silly question in this heated thread. Where can i get the refund paper from , iwant my 40-60 bucks when they inspected my brakes last year when i said the brakes would go nuts.....

[jethro_3]

I think to many consumers of the world expect the manufacturers to make a perfect product... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. This world of, "Get a Lawyer and Sue." is out of hand. Sure GM has problems, find me a part or product manufacturer that does not have a problem. There is no such thing as a perfect product.

If you really feel so slighted by "Big Brother and the Corporate World" get a lawyer. Some of us love our vehicles and know that things will break and shit happens. And Yes I had a dealer lie to me about a repaired vehicle and I won that before we were done with mediation.

Let's all sing "Kum-by-Ya(sp?)" and move on.....

[jumpingjack66]

I have gladly accepted reasonable repairs jethro on many vehicles. Are you trying to say that the meriad of major defects on GM vehicles is reasonable? How do you get there?..I'm perplexed...jj

[jumpingjack66]

Its not just the trucks jethro its the caveliers like my buddys 2002 that he is fighting gm with a laywer over. GM is fight ing the lemon law claim failing to admit that they cannot figure out why these cars stall in turns and cuase accidents. My buddy has been in two. Once the car dies you have no steering and boom. He has a friend at the local dealership that told him they have had many claims,and they cannot fix it. Apperatly one of the few honest techs in the company told him to get an attorney and stop driving it. is this reasonable as well?...jj

[GMMerlin]

Well good..the first thing you can do as an adult is learn to respect your elders.
I don’t know what dealer you are taking your vehicle to, but obviously it isn’t the one I work at.
The dealer I work at doesn’t deny anything, we try to duplicate your concern and fix it right the first time and the fact that I have seen my service manager extend warranty coverage’s on vehicles way past the warranty period to keep customers happy never ceases to amaze me.
GM has to approve the warranty coverage extension and some dealers do have the ability to pre approve that extension.
What do you think happens when a dealer approves a warranty extension and GM denies it? The dealer eats the cost.
As far as your incident with your vehicle rolling on the parking brake, was it parked with the trans in gear (1st or reverse) like it states in your owners manual?
Is the parking brake a crap design?, I’ll say this, it wasn’t one of GMs shining moments, but on the other hand, I have this setup in my truck and it holds just fine.
And once again don’t me give that “i was professionally trained as a mechanic for four yrs when i was young” deal..I hear that all the time. Were you professionally trained or were you one of those guys who thought they knew enough about cars to make a living at it only to find the cold hard truth?
It is obvious you weren’t good enough to make a living at it or did the high tech changes on the cars scare you into another profession?
You think GM cars are garbage..well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. And if using the internet to complain about it makes you happy..type on. I’m sure you will find some company out there.
I can tell you that with my well over 20 years in GM dealers that the quality of the GM vehicle is light years above what it was in the 80’s.
Plus the technology used in today’s GM is light years beyond what the other automakers have out there.
The problem with the advanced technology that GM is using is that many people in the sales and service end (dealers) have not kept up with the changes and are getting further and further behind.
This equates to the definite possibility that many customers will find it harder to find qualified TECHNICIANS to diagnose and repair their vehicle properly.
This leads to customer dissatisfaction…..what this means to me (the fully trained, certified and experienced TECHNICIAN) is more available work and the fact that more and more dealers will be seeking others and myself in my position out to meet the needs of their customers.

Like someone else said, if you don’t like your vehicle buy something else..it’s a free market, and no one twisted your arm to buy what you did.
You will find that ALL automakers have problems and you will find that some are less generous with their warranty coverage’s than GM.
Good luck

[jumpingjack66]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

Well good..the first thing you can do as an adult is learn to respect your elders.
I don’t know what dealer you are taking your vehicle to, but obviously it isn’t the one I work at.
The dealer I work at doesn’t deny anything, we try to duplicate your concern and fix it right the first time and the fact that I have seen my service manager extend warranty coverage’s on vehicles way past the warranty period to keep customers happy never ceases to amaze me.
GM has to approve the warranty coverage extension and some dealers do have the ability to pre approve that extension.
What do you think happens when a dealer approves a warranty extension and GM denies it? The dealer eats the cost.
As far as your incident with your vehicle rolling on the parking brake, was it parked with the trans in gear (1st or reverse) like it states in your owners manual?
Is the parking brake a crap design?, I’ll say this, it wasn’t one of GMs shining moments, but on the other hand, I have this setup in my truck and it holds just fine.
And once again don’t me give that “i was professionally trained as a mechanic for four yrs when i was young” deal..I hear that all the time. Were you professionally trained or were you one of those guys who thought they knew enough about cars to make a living at it only to find the cold hard truth?
It is obvious you weren’t good enough to make a living at it or did the high tech changes on the cars scare you into another profession?
You think GM cars are garbage..well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. And if using the internet to complain about it makes you happy..type on. I’m sure you will find some company out there.
I can tell you that with my well over 20 years in GM dealers that the quality of the GM vehicle is light years above what it was in the 80’s.
Plus the technology used in today’s GM is light years beyond what the other automakers have out there.
The problem with the advanced technology that GM is using is that many people in the sales and service end (dealers) have not kept up with the changes and are getting further and further behind.
This equates to the definite possibility that many customers will find it harder to find qualified TECHNICIANS to diagnose and repair their vehicle properly.
This leads to customer dissatisfaction…..what this means to me (the fully trained, certified and experienced TECHNICIAN) is more available work and the fact that more and more dealers will be seeking others and myself in my position out to meet the needs of their customers.

Like someone else said, if you don’t like your vehicle buy something else..it’s a free market, and no one twisted your arm to buy what you did.
You will find that ALL automakers have problems and you will find that some are less generous with their warranty coverage’s than GM.
Good luck

I do respect my elders Merlin, and in this discussion I have tried to respect you and your life experience. What I disrespect is your attempt at defending GM who I believe to be indefensible. I wish I lived close to you so that I could experience your service, it sounds as if maybe you could help. I think your comment about dealers not keeping up with training could be a lot of the problem here in WV because people here are different and they don’t take well to schooling.(I am not from here I grew up in a Air force family in the southwest and have only lived here since 1991. No, I went to a real vocational school for four years and specialized in tune-up and trouble shooting graduating at the top of my class. No I wasn’t scared away I just realized that working as a mechanic I would either be working for someone the rest of my life or running my own shop which had its limits on eventual income, I wanted much more in a career. Accually sometimes I regret leaving your industry because now the technology is beyond my training and experience and I am lost when looking at the systems on these vehicles. Your right these are very advanced vehicles compared to the 80’s when I went to school but clearly GM did not do enough test and proofing before they started producing these systems.
I have always strived to be the best at what I do, and yes I was good enough to make a living at it. Instead I became I professional driver for 13 yrs, logging 2 million miles accident free, hauling the most dangerous hazmats we have in this country.
No matter what you may believe Merlin I am not a boob. I just totally disagree with your attitude “Not one of GM’s Shinning moments?” Kind of an understatement don’t you think.
No my truck was not in gear, it was sitting on what I would consider almost perfectly flat ground with the PARKING BRAKE set. This system totally failed and let go of the truck even though it was working somewhat and had just been replaced at my expense 4,000 miles and THREE months prior to this incident(that was the third time it had been repaired, I usually have it in gear but for some reason this time I didn’t. THIS WAS MY MYSTAKE. State farm didn’t hold me at fault nor did they try to sue me, they went after GM and won because of the NTSB ruling.

And lastly Here is a Previous post of mine explaining why I cannot get rid of it Merlin:

Here’s why I cannot trade it in. In May of 1999 a drunk driver ran a stop sign and struck me broadside as I was driving home from work on a motorcycle, he also hit and run, but came back to the scene much later, but before the cop got there(I live in the remote mountains of WV) so he got away with it all. He was written a ticket for running a stop sign, that’s it. I on the other hand was in the hospital for thirty days, 4 surgery’s to stabilize my badly crushed right leg, ankle and foot. I walk now by the way but not very well. The hospital cost 100,000 grand and I was permanently disabled. Forced to file bankruptcy I immediately started college in the fall of 2000(as soon as I could get out of bed) to retrain and to get back to work. I am completing my junior year this semester with a 3.8 GPA (had to take a year off last year to rebuild the leg, something broke). Now as much as I would like to get rid of it, I do not have the credit now to get a loan for anything, I live on a meager income and am still pursuing a degree in GIS planning. There is no way for me to get rid of it, it’s only worth now about 11,000. I could sell it but I’m afraid that what I could buy would be less dependable then this 2000 Silverado, as crazy as that sounds… I am between a rock (no pun intended) and a hard place. I am completely at the mercy of GM and that frustrates me to no end. At the time of the accident I was a very successful professional driver of 13 yrs, I had a wife, a new baby, a new home, and immaculate credit. That’s al gone now because somebody did not take responsibility for there actions. Just like GM is doing now, refusing to take responsibility for there mistakes. The repairs I have had to pay for should never have had to been my responsibility, my truck has 70,000 miles now, and it was money I did not have. Instead of eating I paid the repair bills so I could get to school. I don’t want to be on the government tit I want to go back to work. I think that is the responsible thing to do. I am just asking why GM cannot be as responsible…jj

This is why this means a little more to me then someone else Merlin, I just want GM to stand up and take responsibility for there actions that’s all…jj

P.S. Would you please answer my question about the brake swap? It is important. Have a good holiday…jj

[jumpingjack66]

Merlin, can you at least respond and tell me if the brake swap i am asking about will work? ...jj