I didnt know it had gotten this bad. . .

[SiGNAL748]

Bah. Torque. Horsepower. FI. N/A. Liter-age. Power-to-Weight. No difference.

How fast does the car move?

[King Of Crunk]

Originally Posted by flatlander757

And how much does that engine cost? And how much torque does it make?

I think we both make valid points but honestly either of us will not change our views...

While its on my mind, heres a quick joke:

What is the difference between a 900hp Supra, a 1000hp Supra, and a 1200hp Supra?

They all run 12sec 1/4 miles

eeeeediot! (like ren from ren & stimpy)......what is the SAME between a 900hp Supra, a 1000hp, and a 1200hp Supra?

12 second quarter miles......

Anyways, yeah back when i had my camaro i had every body and their brother revving at me....it was so annoying....and if you didn't look they would get pissed and yell at you and shit.......if someone revs at me that seems race worthy....i just hold a 50 dollar bill out the window to show i mean business....

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

LS1-5.7L, 350HP
S54B32-3.2L, 333HP

Now, unless there is a secret Turbo that BMW isn't telling anyone about...

And with modern technology taht even the domestic types have...if you cant get 100hp per liter of a 6.0 V8, then I would be rather miffed...And 600HP NA is impressive. But it still looses to 900HP FId.

It is simple, they do it with highly tuned engines from the factory with high compression ratios, advanced timing, and cams instead of pushrods. Most American cars have lower compression, lower timing, and are still using pushrods. They are a lot less expensive and aren't as highly tuned from the factory.

Let's ask, how much power can you get from that BMW engine and how much can you get from an LS1?

I'm trying trying to say one is better than the other, just different.

[rice(er)]

Originally Posted by -Jayson-

lol a 180HP corolla should have pwned me? I should be right around 220HP-215HP at the crank if not more. And you know for some reason, maybe it was when he reved it and i didnt hear a supercharger, i realized it was a piece. Maybe also when i heard the eclipse behind me rev and didnt hear a turbo i know it was a piece. Ricers dont buy fast cars, they buy the low models of fast cars. See you would rev at slower cars cause you have a slow car and your a ricer. Ricers rev at eachother in the driver though of Mcdonalds to show off how cool they are. If i wanted to act like a dumb 16 year old with a big exhaust and aluminum wing i would have reved at them. I also ignore races of slower cars, why risk getting a ticket for a car that i know i will beat? Trust me im not scared of a 4 banger, theres only a handful of those that i fear, but i would still love to race.

So yes i get exactly what your saying, you prolly do that too. Rev at cars while in the drive though of McDonalds. The way your defending how these guys acted and admitting that you would do exactly what they were doing, shows that your pretty much a ricer. I know you call yourself ricer, but i always thought that was just a joke.

yes, a s/c 180 hp corolla would pwned you, s/c for the 4age adds about 40-ish hp, so 180 hp + 40 hp = 220 hp if i did the math correct, and dont forget the 400 lbs difference

and as for the revving, i dont know exactly how old you are, but i realize that older guys dont do that kinda stuff, it varies from generation to generation, ricers varies from community to community, he probably wanted to race you on the street thats why he asked for a challenge by revving at you in the first place, did they follow you too? now you know why

oh, and i would never back down from a race, even if the cars didn't have a s/c or a t/c, it dont matter, it dont matter how fast you think your car is, its all about having fun, you never know,a good driver could p0wNd a bad driver, not saying ur a bad driver or anything.....

again, it probably comes down to how old you are, i know i would never race a 50+ yr old dude an evo or sti or anything, not saying your old, but this is generally the style of young adults, generally 16 to 25-ish yr olds, unless you're like 40 and look like you're 20 (-.-)

if you dont want cars revving at you, then dont put a cannister as your exhaust, or a big exhaust, just leave the stock exhaust tip on or just take it off or something

and as for my name, well, i do eat rice and i am asian.......

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by flatlander757

And how much does that engine cost? And how much torque does it make?

I think we both make valid points but honestly either of us will not change our views...

actually they both have fairly flat torque curves... but the S54B32 probably has a higher compression and more advanced timing on top of all of their little tricks. but if we want to go power vs displacement Mazda's Rotaries clearly win.

In all reality Power is what matters for acceleration or speed, but you will get off the line quicker if you make this power lower, torque cna be multiplied throught gear ratio's, there for power is always what matters. because 300hp at 6000 RPM is going to be able to push a car to 100mph just as quickly as 300hp at 3500RPM. in a cars iwth equal weight and air resistance and gear ratio's set to be constantly varible to keep the engine operating at 300hp...but since we cant do this engines which have both a good ammount of power and this power can operate over the band which 5 or 6 gears can allow that is what we look for... japan has yet to acheive this, for the most part, in and RPM that you can reliably operate your engine at daily.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by Polygon

It is simple, they do it with highly tuned engines from the factory with high compression ratios, advanced timing, and cams instead of pushrods. Most American cars have lower compression, lower timing, and are still using pushrods. They are a lot less expensive and aren't as highly tuned from the factory.

Let's ask, how much power can you get from that BMW engine and how much can you get from an LS1?

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, just different.

[CBFryman]

but the fact athat the americans are still using the same technology that was being used in the 60's and up untill jsut recently has failed at great OHC motors shows that the americans are lagging in the techonology curb, with displacement comes more power potnetial its as simple as that.
and higher compression and more advanced timing, that is just more power from a more thermally efficent engine, nothing more nothing less.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by CBFryman

but the fact athat the americans are still using the same technology that was being used in the 60's and up untill jsut recently has failed at great OHC motors shows that the americans are lagging in the techonology curb

the pushrod motors still work quite well... and if they couldnt make succesful ohc motors... what does that make the 427 cammer motor in the gt40 in the 60's?

[CBFryman]

not ALL where unsucesful, but as a norm american's high powered engines where all v8 and all push rod where as all through the 90's the norm of Europe and Japan was OHC,

[TheStang00]

but it costs companies a lot of money to develope new engines. thats a big reason why they were slow to change, i think its completely money issues, not that they arent capable. if the pushrod motors work well then its not a really urgent issue. and some of them obviously did work quite well, the 2.3l in the SVO was a damn good motor, probably has more potential than my six shooter. ford as of 05 has switched completely over to ohc motors though. and as a norm, you are correct.

[CassiesMan]

porkchop sandwich.

[Right_LiRrr]

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

I see your point.

But....I also kinda disagree.
The LS1 is by far the most advanced pushrod motor yet. Pushrod.

The BMW makes that power with a completely different engine design. The arguement is void on that alone.
GM could advance how they do things. But pushrod motors keep costs down and perform just as well. There is technology used in the LS1. I mean, look at how efficiently it makes its power. I got over 30 MPG on the highway with a motor that made 350+ crank power.
Not saying the BMW's don't have at least as much technology. It is just used in different ways on different applications.

I think this is most compelling argument I've heard on this topic yet. It is like a comparing apples to oranges....personally, I like pineapple juice!

[CBFryman]

well if we are going to talk about money issue's with deisning new motors than no one can any longer say BMW's/Mercedes/Porsche's/Ferrari's/Austin Martin's/Lamborghni's/Audi's High end/Even Acura NSX's (though IMO could use more hp to be considered a super car anymore) are over priced for the performance. it cost money to be on the cutting edge of technology, Eurpoe is there, america is(was) not. the LS1 is a great power plant, but its still just a pushrod motor, and i use "just" lightly since NASCAR still uses pushrod motors throwing around 700hp all day long for laps on end, a great mechanics sport where the mechanics dont get the credit they should.
These European companies design and create very sucessful motors every time they have a modle change, chevy was still using the same basic 350 (5.7l) small block in a poop load of cars. Cadilac had, untill the later years, created a GREAT engine that was in the shop more than on the road, ive talk to so many mechanics who say the northstar was a good design poorly exicuted.

[CBFryman]

by pineapple juice do you mean Turbo Charged and 2.5l or less or do you mean electronically controlled magnetically operated valves that can open and close 10,000 times per minute without any valve float?