Think YOU Have Problems?

[HeadlessHorseman]

Originally Posted by jagplates

The fact that you have 204,000 miles on your car speaks volumes about it. Most cars are in the junk yard before that. If you take the $8,000 you spent on transmissions out of the picture, your repair costs for this car were a bit less than 3 cent per miles. I was going to say that I suspect that all the blown head gaskets I see on minivans are the result of owners never changing coolant, and obviously you change yours, but then you said that your Toyotas all had head gasket failure by 150,000 miles.

I absolutely agree with you, except for the part about "most cars are in the junkyard before that [204,000 miles]..." For the past 25 years, I have gotten between 180,000 - 200,000 miles on ALL my cars. Maintenance is key, of course; but the other is engineering.

Most of my fellow motorist's cars may be in the junkyard before 204,000 miles, but not mine.

In the past 25 years, I have NEVER "junked" a car... I never had to. Even between 180,000-200,000 miles, ALL my cars were still running well when I either traded them in or sold them privately - and they were not POSes when I did so... they were all reliable, a few of them in stunningly good condition when I parted with them.

Take away my GC LE transmission repair bills and I become a much happier Dodge owner. I have been meticulous in my maintenance schedules (I always have been with ALL of my vehicles), so this makes these major system failures even more frustrating.

Originally Posted by jagplates

When I said that transmission failure on American minivans was common, that's not the same as saying that it's normal. Normal implies proper operation. Breaking isn't proper operation. Although, maybe it is normal... How long does an automatic transmission typically last? 100,000 to 150,000? Then complicate it by making it a transaxle instead of a transmission, maybe it IS going to break sooner. But it certainly looks like there is a problem with Ford, GM and Chrysler transaxles. Especially Chrysler. Maybe now that Mercedes owns them, things will get better.

I know exactly what you mean jagplates...

I personally believe that one of the universe's fundamental law of physics goes something like this: "The more complex a machine is, the more likely it is to fail." Nevertheless, with proper care and maintenance, I believe ALL automatic transmissions should last for at least 150,000 miles.

I have owned, and in some cases driven hard, older cars that have held up FAR better than my GC LE. The first car I ever owned, for example, was a 1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 with a 289 V8 and an automatic... At 17 years old, I beat the crap out of that tranny... it never broke and I drove it well over 150K.

Now, 32 years later with 4 kids, I'm not pulling hole-shots at red lights or drag racing quarter milers any more. I gave that up long ago. I have babied my GC LE since it was born in '96 (never been over 4000rpm, EVER) and this is why Dodge engineering has broken my heart. I'm still hanging in there though...

I have this (maybe irrational) hope that I am just one more engineering revision away from a better transmission. I am willing to wait and see if Daimler has any engineering miracles up its sleeve.

[theFREAKnasty82]

I work at a Dodge dealership in FL and I specialize in transmissions. I have to agree, in the 3 years I have been there, the 41TE transaxle has made me a very successful businessman. The best thing that Chrysler can do (and has been doing over the years) is to strengthen the reaction plate inside the tranny, beef up the clutch packs and reinforce the seals. If you owned an '89 Caravan (the first year the 41TE then known as the A-604 came out) you would have wanted to kill the salesman who sold it to you. Those early trannys would pull themselves apart because of leaking seals. You could be in 2nd gear and first gear tries to apply! Chrysler has gone a long way in the r & d department. Most tranny failures I see are for cars 98 or older. Every now and then I'll see a 99-05 (if even that). So 3 tranny failures is a result of the other two times it was rebuilt, those guys didn't use the secret to rebuilding transmissions. Don't hate Chrysler alone, hate the guy(s) who rebuilt your transmissions. The average life for any tranny is 150,000 to 175,000. After that, it's garbage.

[jagplates]

Originally Posted by theFREAKnasty82

So 3 tranny failures is a result of the other two times it was rebuilt, those guys didn't use the secret to rebuilding transmissions. Don't hate Chrysler alone, hate the guy(s) who rebuilt your transmissions. The average life for any tranny is 150,000 to 175,000. After that, it's garbage.

Aw, c'mon. You can't tease us like that and not tell us the secret.

Also unspoken in your response, but there for those who want to read between the lines is this: Going to the dealer vs an independent is no guarantee of a good job. Nor is paying a lot of money. It is not true that you get what you pay for, but it is true that you pay for what you get. So, while a low buck job is likely to be inferior, paying a high price does not guarantee that the job will be superior.

[coalminer]

After reading all the problems with the 4 speed transmissions, I am glad that my van has the 3 speed. I did have to rebuild my transmission, at a cost of $600 ( I pulled it out and took it to the shop) but that was at 180,000 miles, and I know for a fact that the person who owned it before me had never changed the fluid and filter.

I am looking for another van as mine now has rust issues and I am not good at fixing rust, I need to find one in good shape with a bad motor/trans. Oh, by the way, mine is a 95.

I also have a 94 Intrepid with the 4 speed, and it has 150,000 miles on it, I dont think the transmission has been worked on (other than the filter, dont know how often it was changed though) I dont know if that transmission is close to the Caravans internally, but you can get decent mileage out of a 4 speed also.

One thing you can do for sure to extend the life is to install an aftermarket cooler, has anyone done that just out of curiosity?

[theFREAKnasty82]

Here are my secrets that I use when rebuilding trannys: HAVE AN IMMACULATE WORK AREA!!! I have been in other tranny shops and they have oil, grease and crap everywhere, which sometimes has a tendency to get inside of a rebuilt unit. Everytime I pull out a tranny, if it oil-soaked, I pressure wash it, steam clean it and let it dry. Once I feel as though it's nice and then, then I start my rebuild (by the way, I do my clean off after I have gutted the tranny). Trannys require a lot of tight clearances and if those clearances are even .0001 of an inch off, you can burn a tranny easily. What customer can do to prolong tranny life is NEVER PUT ADDITIVES IN THE TRANSMISSION EVER!!! Every 60,000 miles get a complete flush of the tranny; when you change your fluid, you are only changing the fluid in the pan, not what's in the torque converter or tranny cooler in the radiator. Another thing John Q. can do to make his tranny last longer is to always wait until the tranny is at a complete stop before shifting to and from gears. Don't go from reverse to drive when it's still rolling. LET IT STOP COMPLETELY!!! You shred gears apart doing that. And don't be afraid to lay the hammer down once in a while, it needs that to get those clutches to seat properly. Lastly, when using tranny fluid for these transmissions use only Mopar ATF+4. Doesn't matter if you go to a dealer or to a johnny-b-good hick shop, it all depends on their style and habits and how well they pay close attention to detail is what will determine the outcome of that tranny.

[theFREAKnasty82]

one more side thought, never buy a junkyard tranny, you'll have more problems with the junkyard tranny than you did with you old tranny. With junkyard trannys, you don't know who drove it and how it was serviced.

[HeadlessHorseman]

Originally Posted by theFREAKnasty82

...Lastly, when using tranny fluid for these transmissions use only Mopar ATF+4...

I've seen elsewhere that there is some confusion about ATF+3 or ATF+4 in trannys. Does it matter? I presume it does.

[HiRez_L]

The latest recommendation is to use ATF+3 in all caravans 99 and older, and to use ATF+4 in 2000 and newer minivans.
This page has the details,:
http://allpar.com/fix/trans.html
but basically ATF+4 is the best, ATF+3 is better than anything else out there and what is recommended for all 3 and 4 spedd mopar transmissions if they can't take ATF+4. WHo can't take ATF+4? 3 and 4 speed mopar transmission 99 and older will experience seal failure if ATF+4 is used in them, so they require ATF+3. All others should use the ATF+4.

[HeadlessHorseman]

Thanks for the advice HiRez. I'll ask my guys at Expressway what they use... I never knew that ATF-3 was required in my '96 GC. Learn something new everyday.

[HiRez_L]

Be careful that they only use Mopar ATF+3 as well, the pennzoil and other brands that claim to be ATF+3 have been tested and don't have the same properties.

[RIP]

Great old thread with a lot of food for thought. My two cents - I've got a 96 GC LE 3.8 Ltr with 178,000 with the original tranny (ok - so it leaks a little). I've changed both idler pullies to get rid of "the crickets". Still there. I've changed a leaking water pump and radiator, a bad starter, a blower relay, and that's it! Based on the volume of complaints from GC owners on this website, either I've been very lucky or Chrystler used my van as a training aid on how to do things right. These vans have their problems but, you do get attached to them because they have many great things going for them. OBTW, the only thing I've changed on my 87 Camry with 240,000 was the A/C compressor and pressure valve.

Thanks again to HH for the great info on changing the blower relay. Got any info for leaking trannys? Cheers!

[HiRez_L]

First determine where it is leaking. If it is from the pan, it is relatively simple to drop the pan and replace the gasket. Of course if you are going to do this, you will have to replace your fluid as well, and you should put a fresh filter in as long as you have it off. If it is leaking from where the half-shafts go in, that is a little more problematic, there is an O-ring in there at the end of the shaft that is supposed to seal it, but it has been my experience in replacing many of these that the force you have to apply to get the half-shaft in and out often results in the O-ring being displaced and not sealing properly.