Problems for Ahnold

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by Hybridology

All teachers are under paid...

How long has it been since you were in school? Judgin by the quality of work of my teachers and those of my friends, I find this laughable. Although I will give it to you that there are schools in some areas of California where the teachers are underpaid, but the vast majority of them are overpaid if anything. Considering the amount of actual work that teachers have, around 7 hours a day at just over 180 days a year depending on the school, teachers are incredibly well paid. Did you know that the average teachers salary is $45,000 a year ( http://www.aft.org/salary/index.htm ) not an incredibly large amount, but a decent amount all the same for the amount of effort involved.

Originally Posted by Hybridology

though teachers aside, almost every state worker can get paid more in the private sector, would be able to work overtime and have decent benefits. It's those little extra benefits that make it somewhat worthwhile to work for the state. Take those away, especially if it's as much as Arnie the Clown would want to take, and there's no point working for the state whatsoever.

Most respectable teachers would argue that they work for the students, not the pay/benefits. An added benefit of working for the state which you have seemed to neglect is job security. When working in government it is pretty hard to get fired, normally you just fail upward.

Originally Posted by Hybridology

There would be nobody to do the jobs and nobody to train the minimum wage burger flippers to come in and replace them! Fact! How do I know? Because it's already happening.

Can you give an example of this please.

Originally Posted by Hybridology

As for the special election - what? Do you know something nobody else knows? Do elections cost nothing to put together? If so, if they're free, let's have one everyday!

No shit special elections cost a lot of cash, but I'm wondering, how long did it take before the state debt was cut in half? The money saved by getting Davis out and Arnold in was well worth the cost of the election, and as for the more recent one, well that still waits to be seen

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

youre joking right? i mean, being sarcastic and all? please tell me you dont honestly believe that.

The average teacher pay in my area is 46K a year. Figure out what they make a hour? it's more than 35 dollars a hour with fully paid medical.. Every hoilday off, 10 sick days a year and 2 weeks vacation.

I can say they are overpaid and underworked because a friend of mine is a high school spanish teacher and believe me she doesn't work hard.

So now the average pay of a teacher is 46K a year while the average pay of the public funding the teacher's pay in my county is 30K a year. That 30K a year is from working at least 8 hour days for 52 weeks a year with 5 paid holidays 1 sick day and 2 weeks vacation pay. My medical insurance alone is 400 dollars a month.

All I see happening is my school tax going up, the teacher's pay going up and my pay stays the same. So yes I am dead serious about teacher pay. AND the students test scores are dropping.

[Gotti]

i agree with both the posts above.... teachers are overpaid and they're a bunch of whiney bitches.



I think hybrid is a teacher

[tenguzero]

I'm going to have to disagree with some of the statements about teachers. While they may be overpaid in some areas, I think the vast majority are UNDERPAID. I know that one of my college professors (for instance) was only bringing in just over 30k a year -- even as the full time head of the psych dept! And if you talk to a lot of public school teachers (male or female) I find it an interesting occurance that, for the majority of them, the SPOUSE is often the money-maker. And as for only 7 hours per day at around 180 per year? Right... That's just the time they spend in the CLASSROOM. Who do you think has to read through and grade 120 5-page papers on the American Revolution -- and return them to the students in a timely manner? How about 120 tests? And they STILL have to plan the lesson(s) for the next day/week. PLUS deal with all the pain-in-the-ass kids, increasingly restrictive school-boards, and (like most of us) keep up to date on the happenings in their field of expertise, particularly if they're teaching a current event-based class.

What for me is the proof that many teachers probably don't make what they should? It never fails: EVERY summer I would see at least a COUPLE teachers from school (probably the ones without spouses) working at some store in the mall, or waitering at some restaurant.

Do I have issues with policies like tenure and whatnot? Sure I do -- it shouldn't be used as an institution for a teacher to go soft. But I still think that the really good teachers out there (and there are plenty of them) probably, in the majority of cases, don't get rightly compensated for what they do. Sure it's not supposed to be so much about the money as it is the love of the job, but in this world of expensive housing and expensive food and expensive gas and ever more costly goods, you've got to keep afloat.

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

And as for only 7 hours per day at around 180 per year? Right... That's just the time they spend in the CLASSROOM. Who do you think has to read through and grade 120 5-page papers on the American Revolution -- and return them to the students in a timely manner? How about 120 tests?

Most teachers have their aids do this. There are some who still do it themselves, and they are the better teachers, but they are far and few between.

Originally Posted by tenguzero

What for me is the proof that many teachers probably don't make what they should? It never fails: EVERY summer I would see at least a COUPLE teachers from school (probably the ones without spouses) working at some store in the mall, or waitering at some restaurant.

Don't know how long ago you went to school or if you still are, but I have never seen my teachers working outside of school. I've seen them going to beach or shopping at the store, but never workin at the beach shack or bagging groceries at the store.

[tenguzero]

Maybe it's all geographic area? I live in NH, so the situation may be different here than it would be somewhere like Massachusetts or California. I remember when I was in High School (I graduated back in '00 so it wasn't that long ago) I distinctly remember walking through the mall with friends and being surprised to see one of our teachers working at Foot Locker, or Bertucci's or whatnot. Again, maybe it's a location thing. I can't see New Hampshire being the most progressive as far as support for teachers though.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

Maybe it's all geographic area? I live in NH, so the situation may be different here than it would be somewhere like Massachusetts or California. I remember when I was in High School (I graduated back in '00 so it wasn't that long ago) I distinctly remember walking through the mall with friends and being surprised to see one of our teachers working at Foot Locker, or Bertucci's or whatnot. Again, maybe it's a location thing. I can't see New Hampshire being the most progressive as far as support for teachers though.

I doubt that the teachers are working during the summer just because they need the money. I would tend to beeieve that they want something to do during the summer and couldn't get a summer teaching job to doule their pay for the year.

I agree with you abut college teachers not making the same pay as a public school teacher. I think a college teacher or professor should be making more than a public school teacher but it does show you when public money isn't used to pay a teacher they tend to get paid inline of the general public. When you spend your own money you tend to spend it wiser, taxpayer money isn't their money but they spent it like water. I've watched my school taxes go up for the last 5 years just to pay for the school programs with teacher pay and bennies being more than half the budget.

During the 7 hour day most teachers are given prep time to get lessons ready as well as grade papers. In my area teachers get 2 periods to do this prep time. After several years the teachers just photocopy the assignments and don't need the same prep time as the first couple of years. Only thing left is to grade papers. The teachers that take the work home and do it choose to do it at home while they socialize during the day.

I always thought local government was the most corrupt but now I see my error, it's the school district that is the most corrupt thing around.

[carrrnuttt]

Wow.

I can't believe this. All the shit-spewing, to back-up an obviously inept politician, just because of his party-line, I would presume. If that politician were a Democrat, I guarantee I'd see all kinds of teacher-love in here from certain people.

You guys can talk all you want. I used to work for a high-school, and the teachers are grossly underpaid for what they have to deal with.

I'm appalled at you, especially Flatrater, considering you have kids. Tehvisseus, I can understand, as he is just a child, whose opinion was fed him by his parents.

Teachers are your children's second parents. Yet when kids learn, and grow to become good citizens because of some influence they have, it's the parents who get all the credit (not saying parents don't deserve a large chunk of the credit). When they fail, they get all the blame.

In today's schools, they have to fear for their lives, literally. They spend time after work, following up on their work. Not only grading, but even sometimes checking on kids.

They have the most noble jobs in the world, and some of you have the fucking gall to talk them down, like they are leeching off us.

*Of course, I am only referring to the ones that really care about their jobs, and actually do want to make a difference. There are some jackasses, just like in any profession.*

In the high-school I worked at, I saw a teacher selling Avon for extra money, another doing an online business, and another teaching part-time at a night-school to get extra income.

They were averaging about 25K-32K/yr. Of course, this is in Arizona, where education seems to be an issue, and afterthought at the same time. If they are averaging 45K in California, then they are a lot more well-off.

At the same time, I have seen teachers who have reached out of their own pockets to help students, like during the holidays, when they don't have anything to celebrate with.

My opinion, of course, but like I said, I've seen their side, and it might be rewarding, but it ain't rich.

[lazysmurff]

*i will be refering in my arguments to the average highschool teacher in a public school system*

$45K is a pretty low salary considering the amount of things that a teacher must put up with. ill challenge any teacher that claims they arent working hard to prove to me that they are a decent teacher. its a hard job, and a thankless job. for every kid that says "you changed my life" there are ten kids saying "mr/s so and so is a bitch. can you believe s/he failed me on that test. i bet s/he snorts cocaine and whores themselves on the streets"

and for every parent that believes your doing a fine job and stay out of your way, there are 10 that just wont leave you alone. youre either too easy, or to hard. to lenient, or too strict. people telling you how to do your job at every turn, who have no idea what they're talking about. its an intense amount of pressure.

not to mention if youre at a competitive sports school (here in texas especially, where HS football is religion) youve got pressure from the coaches to pass their star reciever, even if they cant get through a page of Dickens. youve got principals and District managers pulling funds from your department to fund a sports team. youve got parents who could care less if their kid passes, as long as they can throw a ball.

and then lets not even start with the kids themselves. dont want to be there, dont care what youre saying, only memorize to pass tests, etc.

sure, you can say they are overpaid all you want. but frankly, when someone spends that much time around my kids and has that much influence, you better believe i want them to recieve the best pay possible.

teachers are quite possibly the most important and under valued professionals in our society. its high time we paid them like it.

*i dont touch on college professors, because at most big universities, they may only make 40K a year, but they get housing and auto allowances, as well a ludicrous healthcare packages. so their salary hardly reflacts their actual income.*

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Wow.

I can't believe this. All the shit-spewing, to back-up an obviously inept politician, just because of his party-line, I would presume. If that politician were a Democrat, I guarantee I'd see all kinds of teacher-love in here from certain people.

If you're refering to me, you'd be wrong. I'm against the way public schools work in general, and to be quite honest I'm not all that happy with Republicans as of late, yet I do like Arnolds stance on immigration much more than Bush's

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

You guys can talk all you want. I used to work for a high-school, and the teachers are grossly underpaid for what they have to deal with.

Give some facts to back up your stance, otherwise just stay out of it.

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

I'm appalled at you, especially Flatrater, considering you have kids. Tehvisseus, I can understand, as he is just a child, whose opinion was fed him by his parents.

As Flatrater has children, isn't it his duty as a parent to be concerned? and more so, as a taxpayer, doesn't he have the right to complain when he sees his money sqawndered? and really do we have to bring my age into it again? I had thought that you had grown up enough to stop that. Just because I'm younger than you doesn't mean my ideas are any more invalid. My parents raised me to have my own opinions. I was raise with a democrat father and a republican mother, both of which are never home so I think its fair to say that my opinions are my own.

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Teachers are your children's second parents. Yet when kids learn, and grow to become good citizens because of some influence they have, it's the parents who get all the credit (not saying parents don't deserve a large chunk of the credit). When they fail, they get all the blame.

Very true, they have a great influence on the developement of those they teach, and many times they don't get the credit they deserve.

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

In today's schools, they have to fear for their lives, literally. They spend time after work, following up on their work. Not only grading, but even sometimes checking on kids.

It's rare that a teacher is fearing for their lives, at least I hope so. Never had a problem in any schools that I've attended, course I'm sure it happens. But then again I'm sure that bank tellers fear for their lives, as do many other people in other occupations, occationally. Thats true, they do spend a lot of time after hours, but then again so do people in many other occupations, and as far as grading goes, like I said, the good teachers grade their students yet most of them get their TAs to do most of the grading.

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

They have the most noble jobs in the world, and some of you have the fucking gall to talk them down, like they are leeching off us.

Sure they're noble, but so are cops, doctors, firemen, and many other jobs, but I'm sure that if a fireman tried to put out a fire in your house by taking a piss on it, you wouldn't be too happy. Just because they're job is noble doesn't mean it isnt broken.

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

They were averaging about 25K-32K/yr. Of course, this is in Arizona, where education seems to be an issue, and afterthought at the same time. If they are averaging 45K in California, then they are a lot more well-off.

Ya, considering this is a conversation about California and Arnold, I think an arguement revolving around teachers in another state is a little off base.

[Flatrater]

carrrnuttt


Please you are clouding my stance on teachers with the republican and democrat cause. My stance would be the same no matter what party was in office. For the record I think Arnold should of stayed an actor making low grade movies. He should never of ran for office. It's not a republican or democrat issue with me.

Give me a job making 36 dollars a hour and I would have no complaints nor would I need to work another job. Hell give me 45K a year for working 8 hour days 52 weeks a year and I would be well off maybe my wife could even stop working her job.

The biggest issue I have is with the teachers uniion. They are the greedest people on the planet. And the union is backed by the teachers. Right now we are 2 weeks away from the start of school and we have 3 school districts on strike. The issues is pay and medical insurance. Teachers want more money and 100% paid medical. Sorry I don't feel sorry for them.

Maybe all school districts are not run the same but here in my area the teachers make double the yearly pay as the general public. The school board members make a good paycheck too. So I can add teachers, the union and the school board to my hit list.

What really amazes me as a taxpayer paying for my kids education is that the teachers make over 45K a year which makes my school district one of the highest paid districts in the state of Pennsyvania yet we have one of the lowest tests scores on the state mandated tests. We are not getting our moneys worth out of the teachers. But of course they want more money and better bennies. Why don't they teach the kids first and show us how good of a job they are doing before asking us to fork over more money to them. My job I don't get a raise simply by asking for it I have to earn it and that is all I am asking of the teachers.

Over the years I have dealt with many teachers and I can say that some of them deserve more money for the job they do. I have several teachers that I went and talked with the head of the school and told him how good of a job they have done. One teacher I even submitted her name as teacher of the year. We have some excellent and caring teachers but they are far and few. Most of the teacher are just putting in their time till retirement. A good majority of the teacher here have the same last name as the school board members. It's not hard to figure out how they got their job. They are not the best applicants for the job just related to someone in an elected office.

Yet for the praise I found in teachers I have had to go and lodge complaints about teachers not doing their jobs. One science teacher that my daughter had decided to throw a fit in class and tell all the girls they we get knocked up and drop out of school. That had nothing to do with science class.

The school district members just go deeper in debt every year without thinking about paying off the debt. I have watched my school tax double my property tax in 5 years. When I first brought my house my school tax was less than the property tax. We have a large retired population who can't afford to pay their school tax and have no choice but to sell their homes that they owned all their lives because of greed and corruption.

[DGB454]

I don't want to get into the teacher debate. They are just like the rest of us trying to make a living. They are no more or no less noble than the rest of us going to our jobs every day and putting in a good days work to care for our families. (Teachers wanting free insurance is crazy though).

Anyway... I'll take Arnold in Michigan over our current Governor any day of the week. It's my opinion that he is more than a simple actor. He is a leader. I wouldn't worry too much about him staying Governor of Cali for very long. I believe he has his eyes on loftier goals. Time will tell.