Taranaki, this thread is for you!

[dugie6551]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Well if somebody bombs you and you're neutral and another country declares war on you because of that I say that's a good reason to go to war.

When and how did IRAQ bomb the US? I must have been asleep when that happened .... To my knowledge, Iraq has NEVER directly bombed the US. And do not try to say that 11 sept. was done by Iraq. There is no proof of that !!!

Bush decided to save face by starting the "armed incursion" into Iraq because he could not find and destroy Bin Laden and the Taliban. So he went after someone he knew he get find (Saddam waving and yelling "Look at me, look at me !!!").

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by dugie6551

When and how did IRAQ bomb the US? I must have been asleep when that happened .... To my knowledge, Iraq has NEVER directly bombed the US. And do not try to say that 11 sept. was done by Iraq. There is no proof of that !!!

Bush decided to save face by starting the "armed incursion" into Iraq because he could not find and destroy Bin Laden and the Taliban. So he went after someone he knew he get find (Saddam waving and yelling "Look at me, look at me !!!").

Did Muscletang mention Iraq? No he didn't.

I know how Taranaki feels. I would like to see Annan shredded by a combine for standing aside as hundreds of thousands were executed. That gutless bottom feeding coward is praised by some and that it is just sickening. Apparently those people don't give a shit for Africans being raped and killed. It was his watch when machetes were standard issue for eliminating the Tutsi. Now that crotch rot stands aside as the Sudan is pulling a repeat. But, I guess he’s waiting for the go ahead to hold more meeting from his fellow douche bag Chirac.

[ASTAutoSales]

out of curiosity where are you from naki?

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Umm as far as I know the entire world believed Saddam had weapons.

Grossly oversimplified.The truth is, nobody knew for certain.Nobody could find any proof that they existed[poison gas had been used on the Kurds, but all indications from eyewitnesses were that it was of a type used by Iran,not Iraq],the UN inspectors could find no trace of weapons at any of the sites earmarked for them to inspect by the world's intelligence services, and Saddam had made several claims to possess them, none of which he was prepared to back up with evidence.There was much talk of 'potential', and ' could' and 'may be' in CIA reports on the matter, but when these reports were put before the public, all traces of doubt were edited out.Bush invaded using the argument that in the absence of proof of such weapons not existing, his pre-emptive defence strategy had to assume that they did.
He was wrong, of course.I could just as easily say that there was a polar bear in Tehvisseeus' house,and ask him to prove that it didn't exist.If he showed us the rooms one by one, I could argue that he could have moved the polar bear out of the basement while showing me the attic, or that he had the polar bear stashed in a concealed room........It sounds preposterous, I know, but when Bush said it, people believed him.Hopefully they will know better next time.

[ASTAutoSales]

isnt Saddam saying "i have weapons" enough reason to believe he had them?

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Grossly oversimplified.The truth is, nobody knew for certain.Nobody could find any proof that they existed[poison gas had been used on the Kurds, but all indications from eyewitnesses were that it was of a type used by Iran,not Iraq],the UN inspectors could find no trace of weapons at any of the sites earmarked for them to inspect by the world's intelligence services, and Saddam had made several claims to possess them, none of which he was prepared to back up with evidence.There was much talk of 'potential', and ' could' and 'may be' in CIA reports on the matter, but when these reports were put before the public, all traces of doubt were edited out.Bush invaded using the argument that in the absence of proof of such weapons not existing, his pre-emptive defence strategy had to assume that they did.
He was wrong, of course.I could just as easily say that there was a polar bear in Tehvisseeus' house,and ask him to prove that it didn't exist.If he showed us the rooms one by one, I could argue that he could have moved the polar bear out of the basement while showing me the attic, or that he had the polar bear stashed in a concealed room........It sounds preposterous, I know, but when Bush said it, people believed him.Hopefully they will know better next time.

Notice the wording Naki. I said that everyone believed that Saddam had WMD. Not that it was a definite, but even France thought he had them. You're right that you can't just assume that he had them, but remember there was a time where it was known that he had them.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Notice the wording Naki. I said that everyone believed that Saddam had WMD. Not that it was a definite, but even France thought he had them. You're right that you can't just assume that he had them, but remember there was a time where it was known that he had them.

I'm not sure where you get your ideas from ,but you are mistaken.Not everyone believed that Saddam had WMD simply because he couldn't prove that he didn't.Those of us who are cynical about George Didn't believe that he was telling the truth simply bevcause George was unable to prove his argument.As it turns out,we were right not to believe Bush.

And do tell of these WMD that Saddam was known to have had........

[Flatrater]

It gets tiresome posting the same Hans Blix report everytime this comes up.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in540681.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Ir...ss_Destruction
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/studie...ept/9_wmd.html
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/blix14Febasdel.htm

[T4 Primera]

Just as it gets tiresome stating that only one third of the 12,000 page report was available to anyone that wasn't a permanent member of the security council.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

Just as it gets tiresome stating that only one third of the 12,000 page report was available to anyone that wasn't a permanent member of the security council.

But read the pages we were given, it speaks for itself.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

It gets tiresome posting the same Hans Blix report everytime this comes up.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Iraq_war#Weapons_of_Mass_Destruction"]

Before the attack, the head UN weapons inspector in Iraq, Hans Blix, clearly stated that his teams had been unable to find any evidence of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons in Iraq, but that there were issues that had not yet been resolved. Retrospectively, some time after the attack, he doubts they existed Former top American weapons inspector to Iraq, Scott Ritter, a long time advocate of more thorough weapons inspections previously and considered an anti-Iraq hardliner, said that he was now absolutely convinced Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction In fact, most of the international community, including the US/UK intelligence community, came to some form of this conclusion or at least were ambivalent. The Bush administration, though, said they had additional, secret intelligence they could not yet make public which proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Iraq had such weapons.

If you are going to throw quotes around, make sure they support your position.That's more or less word for word what I just said.Bush has since admitted that he had it wrong, perhaps you should do the same.

[Flatrater]

I guess you skipped over thids part!

Dr. Kay's team concluded that Iraq had the production capacity and know-how to produce a great deal more chemical and biological weaponry when international economic sanctions were lifted, a policy change which was actively being sought by France, Germany and Russia. Kay also believes that a large but undetermined amount of the former Iraqi government's WMD program had been moved to Syria shortly before the 2003 invasion

And this part

As of August, 2004 small quantities of chemically degraded mustard gas had been found in old munitions.

And this part

The current situation concerning Iraqi weapons of mass destruction seems similar to that portrayed by Hussein Kamel in 1995 and that of Imad Khadduri [14] (http://www.iraqsnuclearmirage.com/), that Iraq had almost completely destroyed its programs, but sought to retain as much knowledge and information that, should sanctions ever end, the programs would not have to start over from scratch.

This concerning terrorism, Bin Laden and Iraq

There are, however, many al Qaeda operatives who have bolstered the current US administration's claims of collaboration between al Qaeda and the now deposed Iraqi government, as well as charges of cooperation made by the Clinton administration. Al Qaeda weapons smuggler Mohamed Mansour Shahab said in an interview in the New Yorker magazine that he had been directed by the Iraqi intelligence community to organize plan and carryout up to nine terrorist attacks against American targets in the Middle East, including an attack similar to the one carried out on the USS Cole. [25] (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0403/p01s01-wome.html). The only member of the original plot to destroy the World Trade Center to escape US law enforcement officials, Abdul Rahman Yasin, fled to Baghdad shortly after the attacks in 1993.

Abbas al-Janabi, who served for 15 years as personal assistant to Uday Hussein before defecting to Britain in, has spoken frequently about his knowledge of collaboration between the former Iraqi government and al Qaeda. Al-Janabi said that he had learnt that Iraqi officials had visited Afghanistan and Sudan to strengthen ties with Al-Qaeda and he also claimed he knew of a facility near Baghdad where foreign fighters were trained and instructed by members of the Republican Guard and Mukhabarat. [26] (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_15-7-2002_pg4_1). A facility matching al-Janabi’s description was captured by US Marines in Mid April of 2003 [27]

Aside from the contentious allegations of Iraq's relationship with al Qaeda, the former government did have relationships with other militant organizations in the Middle East including Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

[taranaki]

So basically, the report can be read any number of ways, depending on your perspective......how very conclusive.